Pole barn

   / Pole barn #31  
Richard,
<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

I don't have to contend with any kind of building permits, even for a house.

<hr></blockquote>

Now that would be nice...the inspectors here take ornery pills. Even if you are in compliance to local codes, they make you feel like you aren't. I'm still not through the "final" inspection yet. They won't look at it again until the concrete floor is in. Im going to stub some pvc conduit in myself for "future" electrical work, whenever that may come to pass. I'm hoping they don't get me on that.


18-30461-BillSig.jpg
 
   / Pole barn
  • Thread Starter
#32  
Bill,

Thanks. Those are very informative. It is clear that for a given duration of treatment, a 2x6 will be more thoroughly saturated with preservative than will a 6x6. I don't have the physics or engineering background to know how a 6x6 built up of 2x6's compares in strength to a solid 6x6, but in general composites, like plywood, often exhibit superior qualities. I suppose the splice might represent a weak point toward flex in at least one direction, but "weak" is a relative term at best. I've been looking at lots of 6x6, 4x6 and 2x6 lumber in the last few days. One thing I have noted is that it is easier to find really good looking 2x6's than 6x6's. Many of the 6x6 poles appear to be squared-off single trees, while the end grain of the 2x6's gives the impression they were cut from larger diameter logs. The quality of 6x6 lumber may vary sigificantly around the country. Here in mid-Missery they look to be mostly southern pine. The prices for longer pieces of lumber can also be dramatically higher, which makes sense, and the difference is greater for the larger cuts. While a 2x4x16 may be about the same price as two 2x4x8's, a 6x6x16 costs quite a bit more than two 6x6x8's.
This has been an entertaining project so far, and I've not yet driven a single nail. I'll bet most farm boys could slap together a decent pole barn/shed like I plan with very little brain strain. I on the other hand, have only a little building experience, and none with pole-type construction, so I started by trying to get plans. Payless Cashways ran me off a plan and materials list for the 16 by 32 foot shed I at first thought I would build, but then they went bankrupt....I thought their prices were a bit high anyway, and that might be related to their demise. I also got a similar plan from Lowes, this time for the 24 by 32 foot structure I now want to build. Neither of these plans gives enough detail to even show how the roof trusses are supported. However, in both plans, the horizontal below the trusses are 2x12's and are identified is "truss supports", which implies that the trusses are set beside the poles but are supported by these horizontal "beams". I suspect that this is done because it allows the builder lots of leeway about setting the poles. That is, if the site is uneven or the poles are set at different depths, it is no problem. The Payless plan even calls for 6x6x14's even though the walls are to be 9 feet. Slap the poles up. Nail on the beams and set the trusses on them. Then cut off the excess pole. This is probably OK for a relatively light metal roof, but clearly direct bearing vertical members would be superior. In the plans I got from the site Beenthere gave me, the trusses are set on the poles. Though I'm just building a 24x32 open sided barn/shed, with 9 foot walls, I think I'll make laminated poles, using screws or nails and construction cement, and set the trusses in a slot on top, ala Morton. My beams will probably be all treated lumber, with no splice, because that will be easier for me. My site is not perfectly level, and I doubt I'll do precision pole setting, so I may have to get creative. I'm thinking I'll leave the nails or screws out of the top foot or two of my laminated poles, and after I fix the horizontal members at the 9 foot mark, I'll cut off the excess pole a few inches up, then take out the center piece with my chainsaw to make the slot for the truss. Then I can add the fasteners to the poles. Sounds like fun. I ordered the trusses yesterday and they'll take more than two weeks to show up, so I have time to contemplate.

Chuck
 
   / Pole barn #33  
<font color=blue>I still don't see how that is stronger than a good old 6x6 though</font color=blue>

Richard,

Composite wood structures are almost always stronger than good old whatevers. I learned this several years ago when I replaced a 4x12 header over the garage door. Original builder had used a solid doug fir beam with a big ol' knot dead center on the bottom /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif. When I removed it, it had a 1 1/2 inch sag in it /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif.

I replaced the beam with the closest size engineered beam, which was roughly 3x11. This beam was obviously much, much stronger than the original; and it didn't sag either



The GlueGuy
 
   / Pole barn #34  
Chuck,
Send me your address and I'll send you a booklet that tells all about building a pole building.

18-35034-TRACTO~1.GIF
 
   / Pole barn
  • Thread Starter
#35  
Richard,

Thanks. I've sent my address by e-mail. I just got back from the building inspector office where I paid my $38.40. At least this time I got some reasonable information. The inspector I talked with has a farm outside this county. He seemed to think my plan was fine...overkill even. Turns out I could satisfy the requirements with 4x6 poles since my walls are only 9 feet tall. I'm going with 6x6 anyway. Since the top horizontal isn't load bearing and is basically only a girt, he said 2x6 would be fine for that. Again, I'll probably practice my usual overkill, but I won't be going with the 2x12 the Lowes and Payless plans called for. He suggested I add some wind bracing, and that's fine by me. We've had some pretty strong winds over the last few months and with one long side open I figure this building needs some bracing. I've got the open side facing south towards a treeline which will give some shelter, but the wind often comes from the SW, so bracing is good. The 6x6 poles will also stand up better than 4x6. Gonna start fabricating my poles this weekend if I don't get too caught up in babysitting the grandkids. My older son is on the JFK, which I think is off New York. Wish he were here to help, but I suppose he's needed there.

Chuck
 
   / Pole barn #36  
I agree with bracing Chuck and the book goes into all of that.

18-35034-TRACTO~1.GIF
 
   / Pole barn #37  
Chuck52:
If there is a Menard's in your area, get a copy of a free pole barn construction book they have. It is very good for the layout and building of a pole barn. Especially see how they use the splices in the laminated columns to set the trusses. I am currently building a 45x72' by 12' high Menards building and cowboydoc also built his from Menards. Dont cement around the poles but instead place a pad of cement under them and tamp in around the poles. Cement around the poles even if treated will result in faster rotting. Menards also uses four 2x6 by 12" anchor blocks attached to the end of the poles to ensure more of an anchor in the ground. I put my poles 4' in the ground. A 9' tall building will probably require 14' long posts. (cut off the excess after post is set - about 1 foot).
 
   / Pole barn #38  
Yep you're right radman that was the booklet I was going to send him. It's free if you buy the building but if you don't buy the building they won't even let you buy it. Anyway here they won't.



18-35034-TRACTO~1.GIF
 
   / Pole barn
  • Thread Starter
#39  
I wonder why setting the poles in concrete would hasten the decay process. Perhaps the concrete holds in moisture against the wood? I bet tarring the pole bottoms would really extend their life time. Local practice seems to be to use one or two 80 lb sacks of concrete mix dry. Some say to pour in about half a bag dry, set the pole, and then pour in the rest. Then tamp the dirt. I think Morton also does it about that way, don't they? I glued and nailed up my poles Sunday. I used subfloor/deck construction glue and hot dipped galvanized nails. Better Things for Better Living Through Chemistry. It's been raining since then so I can't dig the holes. Local building codes call for 30" holes, but I was planning at least three feet. My poles are 14 feet, and my site isn't all that far from level, so I've got some leeway. I want to get the poles in this weekend if I can dig the holes and get them inspected maybe Thursday or Friday....."Yup, that's a hole". The trusses won't be here for a couple weeks, so I'll probably have my very own Wood Henge for a while.

Chuck
 
   / Pole barn #40  
chuck52:
I believe the reason they don't recommend cement is because the cement holds rain/moisture in and next to the post and thus accelerates the decay process. Putting cement in the bottom to act as a base is good practice. Like you, I have heard of people dropping in dry concrete and then setting the post. I've always questioned the logic of this practice. Yes, it is much faster but I question the benefit. Makes much more sense to mix the cement with water, allow to dry, and then set post. Because of local codes, my side poles were placed in 20-22" diameter holes, 4' 6" deep and with 6" cement in the bottom and the ends were placed on 14" cement pads. When the local inspector came by to check the holes he only seemed interested in the depth. Didn't measure the width or check my engineered specs. To get the 20-22" holes, I used a 24" auger. Takes a long time to tamp in a hole that big.
 

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