Portable Generators

[DarkBlack]

So, can someone help explain the numbers?

We use 401 kWh per month (that's the high number, low is around 258). Looking at the usage by hour (it's absolutely amazing what the utility can show on the web these days) shows max use of 1.88 kW in any one hour (from 11:00AM to noon and just a bit less from noon to 1:00PM).

So, do I need a 2 kWh generator to power my house (most in 1 hour), or do I look at the daily usage (10~15 kWh/day) for sizing a generator?

(our usage is very low 'cause we are in a downstairs condo in town... upstairs neighbors do a great job insulating us )

You can't determine it from that information as it's averaged over an hour. You need to know the peak draw of things such as the first few seconds of a well pump, AC compressor, etc...

 

[BrianWillan]

I have a 15,000 watt pto powered generator and feed my house panel through a manual transfer switch. Pretty happy with it, but those standby outfits are awful nice...!

I am surprise nobody else has mentioned this as an option. This is a tractor forum after all. From what I have seen the large PTO generators are reasonably priced if you already have an appropriate size tractor to run them.

Also keep in mind there are other things that you can do to minimize your electrical use. If it is winter and around the freezing mark. You can store the contents of your fridge outside in a cooler to keep things cold. If it well below freezing. You can do the same with your freezer contents.

Refrigerators and freezers are well insulated and don't need to run continuously to keep the contents at the proper temperature. So continuously running your generator just for the fridge and chest freezer is not needed. Also if you are on electric heat, and are in an area that is prone to power outages then having an alternate means of heating your house is great. A wood stove or fireplace would be good options.

If you head over to battery1234.com there is a whole series of audio podcasts on there that detail how to make power and keep things running when the main power goes out.

Cheers

Brian

 

[Garandman]

Our house in Boston has natural gas heat, stove and clothes dryer. So we can run the bare essentials with a single Honda EU2000i, though we can connect two during the day. We have a manual switch at the panel to take it off the grid. Inverter generators use very little fuel.

Our house in NH is mostly electric and has a well pump so we are installing a 14ke Kohler fueled from two propane tanks as we speak. It will use an automatic transfer switch and will auto-start about 10 seconds after an outage is detected. It also tests itself once a week.

 

[KiotiKowboy]

This topic has been beaten to death here on this site and others. How vital it is to protect personal and property with a proper transfer switch.The hack that switches off the main braker and back feeds a clothes dryer plug or worse yet a welder plug. They are a "special" type of person.

I love being called "special."

I fully understand the risks involved in this shortcut. Because of this, even though the process is simple, I attached a checklist to the generator to follow for hook-up and disconnect.

If/When I choose to install a dedicated power backup unit for the house, I will get it connected properly. Until then, the rare occasion does not justify the expense. All I can say is - I use great care ... and that will have to suffice for now.

 

[Whatswrong]

Is there any possibility of leakage back though the neutral wire ? I would also want to open the switch at the metre for a bit more protection .Most of your comments have been helpful ,thank you .
I guess on second thought we have only one high voltage wire coming in so our ground is a GROUND wire so NOTHING SHOULD leak back.

 

[tcreeley]

Is there any possibility of leakage back though the neutral wire ? I would also want to open the switch at the metre for a bit more protection .Most of your comments have been helpful ,thank you .
I guess on second thought we have only one high voltage wire coming in so our ground is a GROUND wire so NOTHING SHOULD leak back.

unless you have a short

 

[Garandman]

I am surprise nobody else has mentioned this as an option. This is a tractor forum after all. From what I have seen the large PTO generators are reasonably priced if you already have an appropriate size tractor to run them.//

I considered it, but most of our power outages occur during snow or other types of storms where I might well need to use the tractor for other purposes. I see the PTO units as being useful for, say, running a milk barn where you need power for a limited time, or a construction site, etc.

If you get the super-popular Honda EU2000i, I suggest getting the companion model first. It has a 20 amp plug that lends itself to home use. We have a long extension cord so that we can run from an exterior plug by the fuse box/interlock to the back of the house. Really quiet and because they don't have to run at 3,600 rpm they use much less fuel.

The smaller Honda inverter units can be "daisy-chained" together to double their output. This gives you more wattage while still minimizing fuel usage. It is also very easy to connect a marine outboard fuel tank so they will run longer than just the internal one gallon tank.

 

[tcreeley]

Then being poor would be a license to to steal from those with more in the time of need.

Such arrogance- have you done anything to earn it?

....... My 5500 watt generator does one side my house panel. It covers the pump, fridge, freezer, lights, one room elec heat. The power goes out. I flip the main breaker off, go out to my wood working shop that is supplied through a 100 amp sub panel from the house. In the shop, one line goes to a breaker box that is dedicated to the generator, and another line heads for my forge building where my welder is. I start the generator, flip on the generator breaker, check the circuit breaker on the generator. In the house I have backfed electricity.
If I want to check if the power is back on, I flip off breaker to the woodworking shop, flip on the main breaker and look to see if the lights are on. If not, the main breaker goes off, the wood shop breaker comes on and I am running off the generator.

I did it on the cheap. I have never hired an electrician, never had one in my house. I wired my house, shop, forge, barn. I have been poor and have cost nothing to anyone. I take care of my own problems. I did the wood stove, chimney, as well as building everything on my property. Except for the well drilling and the septic, I have done it all without hiring anyone.

If you want to hire an electrician, or a contractor- go for it. I never will, don't need to.
Being frugal teaches you to do things for yourself, and not be at the mercy of others to bail you out in your times of need. I recommend it to everyone.

The power was out for 5 days earlier this month. I used the generator.

 

[KiotiKowboy]

Does anyone use a solar generator. I see these up to 5000W and sometimes think not relying on fuel would be a great asset in an extended outage.

Prices vary all over the place. The early 1800W models were about $2K. I see the 5000W on EBAY for under $900.

 

[Garandman]

Does anyone use a solar generator. I see these up to 5000W and sometimes think not relying on fuel would be a great asset in an extended outage.

Prices vary all over the place. The early 1800W models were about $2K. I see the 5000W on EBAY for under $900.

The problem with those here is that we usually lose power in big snowstorms: when solar output would be minimal.

A friend of mine has a big UPS that he can run his heat circulation pump, internet, laptop and a few lights for 4-6 hours.

 

[buickanddeere]

Burning out motors or generators does not save money. Operating a generator at 90-100% of rated does not save money either as the consumer grade products are not up to the stress.
For the little bit of difference in price of the generator and fuel. Go a size over instead of a size under of what the requirements are. It's not like you are running the system 24/7 as prime power. Invariably people under estimate the electrical demands on a generator. Starting capacity is not given the consideration it requires. Calculating power factor leaves 99.9% of folks with blank looks.

 

[buickanddeere]

Such arrogance- have you done anything to earn it?

....... My 5500 watt generator does one side my house panel. It covers the pump, fridge, freezer, lights, one room elec heat. The power goes out. I flip the main breaker off, go out to my wood working shop that is supplied through a 100 amp sub panel from the house. In the shop, one line goes to a breaker box that is dedicated to the generator, and another line heads for my forge building where my welder is. I start the generator, flip on the generator breaker, check the circuit breaker on the generator. In the house I have backfed electricity.
If I want to check if the power is back on, I flip off breaker to the woodworking shop, flip on the main breaker and look to see if the lights are on. If not, the main breaker goes off, the wood shop breaker comes on and I am running off the generator.

I did it on the cheap. I have never hired an electrician, never had one in my house. I wired my house, shop, forge, barn. I have been poor and have cost nothing to anyone. I take care of my own problems. I did the wood stove, chimney, as well as building everything on my property. Except for the well drilling and the septic, I have done it all without hiring anyone.

If you want to hire an electrician, or a contractor- go for it. I never will, don't need to.
Being frugal teaches you to do things for yourself, and not be at the mercy of others to bail you out in your times of need. I recommend it to everyone.

The power was out for 5 days earlier this month. I used the generator.

Have you studied up on law to be your lawyer regarding liability and manslaughter ?

 

[tcreeley]

Such arrogance- have you done anything to earn it?

....... My 5500 watt generator does one side my house panel. It covers the pump, fridge, freezer, lights, one room elec heat. The power goes out. I flip the main breaker off, go out to my wood working shop that is supplied through a 100 amp sub panel from the house. In the shop, one line goes to a breaker box that is dedicated to the generator, and another line heads for my forge building where my welder is. I start the generator, flip on the generator breaker, check the circuit breaker on the generator. In the house I have backfed electricity.
If I want to check if the power is back on, I flip off breaker to the woodworking shop, flip on the main breaker and look to see if the lights are on. If not, the main breaker goes off, the wood shop breaker comes on and I am running off the generator.

I did it on the cheap. I have never hired an electrician, never had one in my house. I wired my house, shop, forge, barn. I have been poor and have cost nothing to anyone. I take care of my own problems. I did the wood stove, chimney, as well as building everything on my property. Except for the well drilling and the septic, I have done it all without hiring anyone.

If you want to hire an electrician, or a contractor- go for it. I never will, don't need to.
Being frugal teaches you to do things for yourself, and not be at the mercy of others to bail you out in your times of need. I recommend it to everyone.

The power was out for 5 days earlier this month. I used the generator.

Have you studied up on law to be your lawyer regarding liability and manslaughter ?

If I am careful, I have no problem do I. You are always worrying about liability, and approaching life as a lawyer or an insurance broker. You don't build your own place unless you think it out carefully. I am self-taught - from trade books and I have a good eye for spatial relationships. It is not rocket science, and when you get started -commonsense kicks in.
You do realize that every time you operate a vehicle, you have increased your odds of being severely injured or severely injuring someone else- loved ones included. The safest route is to stay inside, keep away from that mechanized vehicle that greatly multiplies the force that you can bring to bear on an object. A lapse in your attention will surely create the possibility of grievous harm.
Toss the keys, stay inside, be safe.
Leave the choices to me.

 

[buickanddeere]

Your choices affect the life and death lines persons or civilians that maybe involved with downed power lines due to storms or motor Vehicle crashes.i am utility worker and it is routine to come across people who "know what they are doing" with an energized back feed into the primary's . More than once we have been also approached by "people who know what they are doing" with a damaged generator that was not synchronized to utility frequency.
Worse yet you promote the illegal dangerous non interlocked backfeed to others around you .which increases the odds of backfeed out onto the primarys.

 

[tcreeley]

Your choices affect the life and death lines persons or civilians that maybe involved with downed power lines due to storms or motor Vehicle crashes.i am utility worker and it is routine to come across people who "know what they are doing" with an energized back feed into the primary's . More than once we have been also approached by "people who know what they are doing" with a damaged generator that was not synchronized to utility frequency.
Worse yet you promote the illegal dangerous non interlocked backfeed to others around you .which increases the odds of backfeed out onto the primarys.

I guess it would behoove utilities to cut trees + limbs more frequently. The majority of the outages were caused by those. After the last 5 day ice storm in the 90's we went a number of years without outages due to good limbing practices. Around here- seeing limbs rubbing the wires is a common sight. Add ice and snow- you have an outage and portable generator use. Seems like it would be easy to develop a back feed circuit breaker to be attached to meters. That would up safety. They are installing smart meters in this state. They could engineer those to include backfeed breakers.

 

[BuilderML]

I think the OP request got off track. I purchased this Toro 7000 watt generator and it starts and runs great. It also has great reviews, consumer reports recommendation and a very good price. I purchased at Lowes.

Shop Troy-Bilt XP 7,000-Running Watts Portable Generator with Briggs & Stratton Engine at Lowes.com

I also have the Troy-Built XP 7000. Very good unit i have over 200 hours on it without an issue.
I back feed my whole house , which includes 2 fridges, 1 freezer, well pump, air handler, no issues what so ever with capacity. You can run just about anything in the house as long as you are smart about it. No need to go put every light on in the house for no reason.
When it comes to generators unless your paying big bucks for a honda or subaru , they are all about the same units chinese generator heads with different engines powering them. For under $1000 bucks with tax you can't go wrong with the troy built xp.

 

[buickanddeere]

I guess it would behoove utilities to cut trees + limbs more frequently. The majority of the outages were caused by those. After the last 5 day ice storm in the 90's we went a number of years without outages due to good limbing practices. Around here- seeing limbs rubbing the wires is a common sight. Add ice and snow- you have an outage and portable generator use. Seems like it would be easy to develop a back feed circuit breaker to be attached to meters. That would up safety. They are installing smart meters in this state. They could engineer those to include backfeed breakers.

What do you mean by backfeed breakers?
If you are referring to a proper generator transfer switch that breaks before makes which provides inherently safe, foolproof isolation? You maybe thinking of this unit ? It's actually an excellent product for some customers. GenerLink.com - About GenerLink - The easy way to connect a home generator

 

[buickanddeere]

..........darn ? another double post?

 

[David_Kb7uns]

I guess it would behoove utilities to cut trees + limbs more frequently. The majority of the outages were caused by those. After the last 5 day ice storm in the 90's we went a number of years without outages due to good limbing practices. Around here- seeing limbs rubbing the wires is a common sight. Add ice and snow- you have an outage and portable generator use. Seems like it would be easy to develop a back feed circuit breaker to be attached to meters. That would up safety. They are installing smart meters in this state. They could engineer those to include backfeed breakers.

So what is wrong with putting a proper transfer device and do it right?

David Kb7uns

 

[kevinwak]

I jumped from Stage 1 to Stage 3, skipping Stage 2, when I began traveling more for work. While I could have written out instructions for my wife, the thought of her trying to get a pull start generator running, in the middle of a storm, particularly in winter, then running extension cords, particularly to the sump pump and furnace (hot air oil) was a situation I could not put her in. Bought a Honda generator, an APC auto transfer switch, had an electrician install it. Other than the slight delay I've set in the transfer switch so it doesn't trigger the generator for power blips, the fact the generator is running is almost, almost, transparent. The TVs and internet connections are on UPSs and the transfer switch even has a little UPS connected to it to carry certain circuits through the generator delay. The peace of mind this provides, whether I'm away or we're both away is, as the MasterCard commercial used to say, priceless.

What model Honda generator do you have? Up until reading this it never occurred to me that I could rig one for auto start. Any pictures?