Posthole Digger Post Hole Digger Warning

   / Post Hole Digger Warning #42  
Safer, easier, and I believe that the hydraulic can put down a lot more than 500lbs of pressure. ;)

Isn't the down pressure a function of what it is hitched to? A hydraulic unit on a 3 pt won't have any downpressure beyond it's own weight. A unit on a loader or skid steer (which can provide downpressure) would be different.
 
   / Post Hole Digger Warning #43  
Isn't the down pressure a function of what it is hitched to? A hydraulic unit on a 3 pt won't have any downpressure beyond it's own weight. A unit on a loader or skid steer (which can provide downpressure) would be different.

No, there is a clever little geometry trick that is used.
It isn't just WEIGHT, there is also some hydraulic force that is brought to bear.
I can see that a down pressure kit on a 3pt MIGHT get more pressure to the ground than a bucket/FEL mounted unit, just based on the weight of rear loaded tires.
My guess is that if you can't get enough down pressure with a FEL/bucket then you are probably into something that is just going to dull the auger and produce more heat than hole.
....and you need a very different auger.

I like the idea of a FEL/Bucket hydraulic unit; ease of accurate placement, reversible, etc., but for the fact that I would almost certainly want to use the bucket to clean up immediately afterwards.
Maybe it is a two or three step thing, drill the line of holes, install the posts (and rails or whatever goes between them), come back and clean up around the bases.

The company that supplies the Northern Tool units sells just the hydraulic motor, you could probably fab up whatever mounting brackets and other stuff you need from there.
 
   / Post Hole Digger Warning #44  
I can see that a down pressure kit on a 3pt MIGHT get more pressure to the ground than a bucket/FEL mounted unit, just based on the weight of rear loaded tires.

Reg,

There is no down pressure on a 3 pt beyond the weight of what is attached to the 3pt and the weight of the 3 pt arms. Rear loaded tires have absolutely no affect. There is no down pressure on a 3 pt hitch, it's always in "float mode".

Ken
 
   / Post Hole Digger Warning #45  
Reg,

There is no down pressure on a 3 pt beyond the weight of what is attached to the 3pt and the weight of the 3 pt arms. Rear loaded tires have absolutely no affect. There is no down pressure on a 3 pt hitch, it's always in "float mode".

Ken

Look at that picture a little closer. 3 point down pressure KIT.
 
   / Post Hole Digger Warning #46  
Isn't the down pressure a function of what it is hitched to? A hydraulic unit on a 3 pt won't have any downpressure beyond it's own weight. A unit on a loader or skid steer (which can provide downpressure) would be different.

Ken, because of the geometry trick that is used as Reg mentioned, the Hydraulic down pressure kit is the way to go in my opinion.;) What I do know for sure is that I have a lot of DG (decomposed granite) and when it is dry, it is just about as hard as rock.:( Using my post hole digger on it's own is about worthless,:mad: bought the down pressure kit for it and I can now dig holes as I please.:D In fact it works so good that I have not come across a hole that I couldn't dig to full depth in a couple of minutes.
 

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   / Post Hole Digger Warning #48  
Reg,

There is no down pressure on a 3 pt beyond the weight of what is attached to the 3pt and the weight of the 3 pt arms. Rear loaded tires have absolutely no affect. There is no down pressure on a 3 pt hitch, it's always in "float mode".

Ken

Right, but if you will please READ the two sentences before the one that you chose to quote - and maybe do a bit of research/study - you may realize that a down pressure kit DOES add more down force than the mere mass of the attachment.

Whether or not it is enough to lift the rear wheels off the ground if/when the drill hits something way too hard for it is another question, but I suspect that there are specs for it and a little arithmetic would show how heavy the tractor would need to be to stay down.

Personally I would rather do without it, but I haven't found DG at my place (yet).
 
   / Post Hole Digger Warning #49  
Having worked on hydraulic drilling platforms I know the risks of drilling into the ground. Some people on this thread do not fully respect the dangers of the "slow turning" drill. I would tell those people, if the slow turning drill doesn't scare you tough guy - then grab it. These PHD operate on the very same principles that hyrdaulic and air rotary rigs operate on. A 9-12" auger will put you into the ground. Don't fear it - respect it.

For those of you who think a rear mounted 3pt rig can't drill holes, I will provide a link to the mother of all 3pt PHD.
BELLTEC Industries :: TM48 Post Hole Digger
 
   / Post Hole Digger Warning #50  
I stood on my PHD once to give downpressure. It was an incredibly stupid thing to do. I have very hard clay topsoil. If it is damp, a standard auger will drill, but if dry and hard, forget it. Beneath the clay is duripan, a very hard hardpan that is silica cemented from ancient volcanic ash. It is as hard as concrete and almost water impervious. That "almost" makes a big difference.

Recently I made some modifications to my PHD to allow it to drill in the hardpan. There is a machinist/welder down the road who does good work for a fraction of the cost of most shops. I picked up some scrap steel at a steel yard. From that, using the design I created, the machinist made the ballast support sub-frame you see below. He also welded the bar to the sub-soiler you will see in the later pics. Cost from machinist-$40 for frame, $10 for weld.

The steel yard also had an old barbell bar with two 50 lb. disc weights that I got for $25. I picked up the other weights you will see for $0.33/lb. at a used sports equipment store, along with the locking collars for $5/ea, and the spring collar on the sub-soiler for $2.50. Nuts and bolts were about $9.

I cut a short piece of the barbell bar to insert through the PHD ballast frame. Another piece got welded to the sub-soiler. I have a third piece extra. Total cost for ballast system on PHD $117. Spent $22.50 more for small discs and collar for sub-soiler ballast.

I also went to the Kubota dealer and got a new Pengo 6" dia. 42" long auger with carbide teeth and a Tri-Flow tip. They had 4 versions of the Tri-Flow tip: std., carbide tipped, hard faced, and all carbide-which has carbide studs up the side of the tip. I got the all carbide.

Now with 260 lbs. of ballast on the PHD and this all carbide tip, the auger still simply spun around when it hit the hardpan. I do have a neighbor with a Bobcat skid-steer and front mount downpressure 12" dia. auger/carbide tip that slices through this stuff like butter. I was astounded when mine still just spun round and round.

I then decided to water saturate a place where the pan was exposed and keep it wet for a couple of weeks. Finally, the thing did dig-5 min. for a 30" hole. With my first hole, the 3-ph on the Kubota BX2200 did not have the strength to pull the auger, 260 lb. of ballast, and mucked on tailings out of the muck hole. I put the lift lever in up position and had to use a lot of strength to "assist" the PHD main frame. Finally I settled on 200 lb. of ballast. It still takes around 5 min. per hole if the pan has been saturated for many days. The 3-ph has just enough lift to the auger out of the mucky hole. A BX can lift a half ton @ 2' from the 3ph, but this is a full sized PHD and that ballast is a long way from the lift arms.

Most PHDs that fit a subCUT take a 30" auger. I did some mods on the 4ph bh subframe and got a full sized PHD on. This Pengo auger is 42" long with 19 1/2" clearance @ full 3ph lift. I have an 18" auger extender on order, which will put me at 60" total. Hopefully that will get me a 48"-50" deep hole.

The same weights can be used as ballast on my sub-soiler, as shown in the last photo. This gives a good bite in the clay when dry and hard, and also enables it to rip about an inch into the hardpan, although that wears off the standard steel tooth at an amazingly fast rate.

Edit: This post is at the end of p.5; there are 6 more pics on the next page.
 

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   / Post Hole Digger Warning #51  
Pics continued from post @ end of previous page:

From the tractor.

From directly behind the gearbox.
 

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   / Post Hole Digger Warning #52  
The machinist didn't get the holes alligned such that the bolts would be flush with the PHD frame so I used some galvanized pipe as bushing/spacers to tighten things up flush.

The Pengo carbide teeth and tip. Note the carbide studs on the side of the tip.
 

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   / Post Hole Digger Warning #53  
Last two:

Sub soiler with ballast.

Subsoiler without ballast so welds can be seen.
 

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   / Post Hole Digger Warning #54  
Ken, because of the geometry trick that is used as Reg mentioned, the Hydraulic down pressure kit is the way to go in my opinion.;) What I do know for sure is that I have a lot of DG (decomposed granite) and when it is dry, it is just about as hard as rock.:( Using my post hole digger on it's own is about worthless,:mad: bought the down pressure kit for it and I can now dig holes as I please.:D In fact it works so good that I have not come across a hole that I couldn't dig to full depth in a couple of minutes.

We have one on a worksaver hd posthole digger and it has made it a 100% better tool when digin holes
 
   / Post Hole Digger Warning #55  
In S. Fla rock, the only way to get an auger to dig in is with hyd down force on the unit. And even at that, you can pick up the rear of a tractor in some hard spots. Our augers have carbide teeth and wear resistant edges added too. But then we use D-8 and D-9 dozers to plow ground too. With carbide teeth on a 24" wide v-plow.:eek:
 
   / Post Hole Digger Warning #56  
In S. Fla rock, the only way to get an auger to dig in is with hyd down force on the unit. And even at that, you can pick up the rear of a tractor in some hard spots. Our augers have carbide teeth and wear resistant edges added too. But then we use D-8 and D-9 dozers to plow ground too. With carbide teeth on a 24" wide v-plow.:eek:

Around here, vintners planting new vineyards have to rip the hardpan with this bad boy, a Cat D-11R, the biggest dozer Cat makes. And notice that even then, all the power has to be concentrated into a narrow tooth. The V you describe would get hung up because the pan is too hard to break otherwise.
 

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   / Post Hole Digger Warning #57  
Tom,
Nice job with the weights, but {there is always a BUTT (-: }
Those look like HANDLES !!!
I would be SO TEMPTED to just hang from them, maybe even climb on the digger frame and lean out there.
Actually that would probably be safer, since any loose clothing would be farther from the rotating parts.

I think my tractor needs an "operator absent" cut off switch under the seat ?
 
   / Post Hole Digger Warning #58  
You guys think nothing of cruising down the road 60-70+ mph in a 1-2 ton vehicle, the like of which slaughters people on a regular basis. But a big drill bit, spinning slowly, scares the he11 out of ya'??? Your local hardware will, no doubt, be glad to sell you all the shovels and bars you want.

I love this statement
 
   / Post Hole Digger Warning #59  
I love this statement

I do understand the "crumple zone".
I also understand at least a little bit about statistics, anecdotal evidence, small sample sizes, exceptions to general rules, etc.
 
   / Post Hole Digger Warning #60  
Tom,
Nice job with the weights, but {there is always a BUTT (-: }
Those look like HANDLES !!!
I would be SO TEMPTED to just hang from them, maybe even climb on the digger frame and lean out there.
Actually that would probably be safer, since any loose clothing would be farther from the rotating parts.

I think my tractor needs an "operator absent" cut off switch under the seat ?

Thanks for the compliment. As far as your warning, LOL, there's no way I'm gonna hang from or lean on that while that rig is turning.

Slow speed means nothing if there is sufficient torque or inertia in something. In Science, I call on students to volunteer to be subjects in an imaginary situation. I have two students stand against the wall and tell them that one will get hit by an object going one hundred miles per hour and the other by an object going one mile per hour. At first, each wants to choose the one mile per hour object. I then tell them that the wall is the base of a granite cliff, like El Capitan in Yosemite; the hundred mile per hour object is a very tiny dry spitball, and the one mile per hour object is a mile long freight train. Without the need for any force equals mass times velocity calculations, even little kids totally get it that the spitball will do nothing (except to an eyeball) and the train will completely crush them.
 
 

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