Post Holes: Danuser EP6 and which augers???

[FatTire]

Thinking seriously about buying a hydraulic auger, most likely the Danuser EP6, for use with my Kubota MX5100 (9 gpm). Where I get hung up is selecting the auger(s). We have 6 to 20 inches of top soil, and then clay, and plenty of rocks ranging in size from 4 inches up to several feet in diameter. When digging a post hole by hand in this rocky ground, there is less than 50% chance of completing any hole that I start, which is painful when you have 20 minutes or half hour into a hole and then hit a big rock. ( I've been known to "misread" 24 inches as "30 inches" from time to time, rather than "give up".)

My main question is what happens with a rock bit if you hit the edge of rock? For example if drilling hole, and happen to hit the edge of boulder that is sticking out into the path of the hole, does the rock bit cut into it, or does it try to push the auger (and FEL) sideways? Also- Am I going to want both a dirt auger and a rock auger?

Any feedback on this auger question, along with FB on the Danuser EP6/EP10 units is appreciated.

 

[texasjohn]

I have experience in ground similar to yours. My very strong recommendations are...

Get rock bits...these work fine when you don't hit any rocks and make 100% difference in penetration when you do hit rocks.

Get a digger with down pressure capability. You WILL need this ability.... the regular weight of the post hole digger itself is insufficient when you hit rock. You will need down pressure when you hit rocks...and it can really help when you hit hard clay.

When the auger hits stuff, how it behaves depends on what it hits. I have a Danuser auger, no down pressure, I added 200 lbs weight to it, 12 inches. Wish I had down pressure.

When it hits a flat slab of rock, auger will bounce and bounce on the rock and the rock bit will grind into the flat slab. Sometimes, it can chip away enough to crack and grind enough to make its way thru a slab down to clay underneath. Sometimes not. When it goes no where, you have a hole with a rock bottom well scored where the teeth went round and round.

If you are going thru a mix of various sized rocks, the auger will pound away at them and when one breaks loose it will make its way to the top of the hole and out. If there is a big rock with just a jagged corner sticking into the hole...you can end up with a PROBLEM. The end can get caught in the auger and pull the auger into the ground but the rock is too stuck to come up....so the auger gets hung....only solution is to disconnect the auger and wind it backwards out of the hole.

Hitting a big rock on its side can cause the auger to slide to the side and go down the edge of the rock. This results in a slant hole.

The most important thing to learn is to not try to drill too deep at one time. Up and down, up and down, up and down.....each time you come up, the spoils spill out. If you go too deep, it can be come too heavy to lift out and you get stuck....but this won't happen if you keep the hole kinda clean as you drill down.

Finally, I recommend you use metal T posts for line posts... as few wood posts in drilled holes as you can...use the FEL to drive the T posts in.

 

[FatTire]

Thanks, that's what I wanted to know. Sounds like I could get by with just 1 auger, something like 10 inch rock bit. The EP6 is hydraulic, so I imagine I'd be able reverse flow to pull out of hole when it jams.

 

[Ken45101]

Yes, as long as you have the hydraulics set up, you can reverse the auger and back it out. That's a big advantage of a hydraulic auger AFAIK.

As for auger size, well, what size posts are you going to put in and how will you backfill? An oversize hole either needs concrete to fill the hole, or a compacted dirt fill. Compacting fill dirt by hand with a spud bar is not fun IMO. I tend to keep the hole only a few inches bigger than the post so there is less backfill and more solid ground. If I was really sure of a vertical hole, I would use an auger very close to the post size (e.g. a 5" auger for a 4" post).

My PHD is three point but I have 4, 8 and 12" augers depending on what I'm putting in. IMO, a 10" auger is a poor choice for 4 or 5" posts.

 

[FatTire]

I have to put in some 6x6 with concrete sono tubes, but more often 5" diameter round posts. If you only leave an inch (or less) gap around the post, how do you pack it?

These rock bits are a grand or more, so I will get only one. Even with a 10" auger, I would have to widen out the hole manually to make it wide enough for the sono tube. (6x6 is about 8.5" across the corners, so even a 12" tube is tight.) For round posts we do not use concrete, just backfill with dirt/clay.

 

[texasjohn]

get the right size auger to start with. I have trouble getting a straight hole...always seems to slant off some way for some reason. thus, putting a pole straight in a slant hole requires a larger diameter hole to start with. I use a tamping bar to tamp in dirt/clay...and I agree, if only an inch gap it is very difficult to get a good firm tamp all the way around the post. If I were going to do a number of posts, I think I would get some gravel to shovel in around the post. finding the right size material to flow evenly around a post at the dig site is often a problem. On occasion when using a mix of rock/clay, I have had to transport water to the hole and water in the material to get it to settle down and around the pole.

 

[rd_macgregor]

I have a Belltec hydraulic auger with 9" and 15" bits (with 2" hex shaft mount). It works pretty slick and the reverse is handy both for backing out a stuck bit, but also it helps in clearing the soil off the bit when you pull it out of the hole. Rocks can be a nuisance, but type of rock can make a big difference. Ours is relatively soft sandstone and, with a bit of down pressure, a good bit can grind right through it. I suspect something like granite would be a bit more of a challenge, plus, breaking up or forcing aside cobbles would be a whole different story than trying to drill right through boulders or bedrock!

Obviously, if you are casting concrete posts, you need to drill a bigger diameter hole. For PT wooden posts, I've wondered if it wouldn't work to drill a slightly undersized hole and then push or drive the post into the hole...voila, no back-tamping!

Also, standard bits are nominally 4' long; I'm planning to get an extension, probably 18" in case I decide to do my own pole barn pole-holes.

A final note on visibility. The Belltec is centered on a QA plate, and I can not quite see the exact spot where the bit touches the ground. I'm thinking of getting a magnetic trailer hook-up camera to stick on the FEL arm so I can see precisely where the bit is landing and what's going on there. This rig might also be handy for monitoring rear implements in tight clearance situations.

Bob

 

[gdanuser]

The "Rock" Augers are good for solid rock or concrete. The EP6 and the Kubota do not have enough torque or down force to operate the "Rock" Auger effectively. I would recommend the "Cast" Augers. They will power through the dirt, clay, and rocky soil. Industrial Augers | Danuser

 

[texasjohn]

He knows what he's talking about, not just trying to upsell you. He knows his equipment. It might be worth it for the OP to engage in a phone discussion with gdanuser regarding the equipment, its abilities and the nature of the task to be done. Just an idea. Danuser reputation on TBN is excellent. Seldom posts, but watches and contributes positively when his equipment is being discussed.

The "Rock" Augers are good for solid rock or concrete. The EP6 and the Kubota do not have enough torque or down force to operate the "Rock" Auger effectively. I would recommend the "Cast" Augers. They will power through the dirt, clay, and rocky soil. Industrial Augers | Danuser

 

[gdanuser]

He knows what he's talking about, not just trying to upsell you. He knows his equipment. It might be worth it for the OP to engage in a phone discussion with gdanuser regarding the equipment, its abilities and the nature of the task to be done. Just an idea. Danuser reputation on TBN is excellent. Seldom posts, but watches and contributes positively when his equipment is being discussed.

texasjohn, thank you for the comments! We do try and watch when customers need advice or troubleshooting with Danuser Equipment. Feel free to call or email. Thank you!
Glenn Danuser

 

[FatTire]

The "Rock" Augers are good for solid rock or concrete. The EP6 and the Kubota do not have enough torque or down force to operate the "Rock" Auger effectively. I would recommend the "Cast" Augers. They will power through the dirt, clay, and rocky soil. Industrial Augers | Danuser

Thanks, I am planning to give you a quick call to discuss before getting quotes from you distributors if you don't mind.

 

[EverythingAttachments]

You can see the Danuser Auger Drives and Augers on our website.
Feel free to give me a call to discuss shipping options and prices for auger drive/auger combos.
Travis

 

[texasjohn]

these people advertise on TBN and have a good reputation.

You can see the Danuser Auger Drives and Augers on our website.
Feel free to give me a call to discuss shipping options and prices for auger drive/auger combos.
Travis

 

[buickanddeere]

Not the HD auger but the real rock auger. My HD auger is all bent to prices from catching rocks.

 

[TomSeller]

I have the Danuser 1025 model. Very good unit. Given the inherent safety of a hydraulic post hole digger, I would never go back to a 3 point model. I have very little rock and use a 15" auger.

 

[gdanuser]

Thanks, I am planning to give you a quick call to discuss before getting quotes from you distributors if you don't mind.

I was out of town Wednesday - Friday last week. I am back in the office this week except Wednesday. I would be happy to discuss some options with you so you get the right machine for the right task.

 

[FatTire]

Just to close the loop on this, I had a good discussion with Glenn Danuser in April about choice of bits, and eventually ordered the EP6 with a 10" cast auger through a local dealer. I have dug just a few holes so far and this is what I think:
The EP6 is looks well made. It has a cradle so you can travel without dangling the auger. It is pretty small, actually the smallest hydraulic auger that I've ever seen, but that's about all you can do on a 9 gpm tractor. The offset QA mount works well, it is easy to see the auger/hole by leaning over just slightly to the right. I've seen guys with skid-steers dig holes and basically clean 'em out, but I'm still learning to use this thing and have been leaving anywhere from a few inches to a foot or more of loose material in the bottom of the hole. Being able to reverse direction is great, I got the bit stuck between two rocks, tried to lift it out, would not budge, and then reversed direction and it came right out at low rpm. If you are looking for a hydraulic auger that will run a tractor with less than 10 gpm, I'd say include this one in your evaluation.
As far as 3 point vs. hydraulic, it probably depends on your ground conditions and budget, but I definitely like the hydraulic units.

 

[texasjohn]

Thanks for the rest of the story!

 

[gdanuser]

Glad to hear the EP6 and Cast Auger are working well for you. Keeping the drive unit size small will allow the drive unit to be lowered into a 12" or larger hole to get deeper without having to purchase extensions. The best advice for cleaning out the hole is to dig to your desired depth and let the auger just sit and spin at a slow speed. This will collect most of the loose dirt in the bottom of the hole. When you think you have most of the material, turn off the hydraulics, lower your RPM, and slowly raise up out of the hole in one continuous motion. Then you can back up or pull forward so the dirt does not go back in the hole. Everyone has their method, you might get some other recommendations from this forum.
The hydraulic units are getting more and more affordable and for the difference, you can't beat reverse, upfront viewing, and the stall feature instead of shearing bolts.
Let me know if you need anything else.
Glenn Danuser

 

[FatTire]

Thanks Glenn. Yes- not having shear bolts is wonderful. On my snow-blower truck, I've noticed shear bolts seem to go just as the sun is setting or when its very windy.