post set in concrete, never again

[heehaw]

gvw, what did you plant in that corner?? i've been thinking about planting some autumn or russian olive to do the same thing..have you ever had to remove a post that was set with the dry concrete??? just wonder if it would be as hard to do as just using concrete?? removing that post stub and concrete was a real pain..i know i could have left it, but it would have bugged me forever..
heehaw

 

[dmccarty]

GVW,

Thanks for the great info.

The gates I'm looking at are made of lightwieght pipe. One is painted red and the other is bare galvanized. I can't tell which looks better. I can easily lift them so they are light. I dont' have access to a portable welder. And since I can't seem to find pipe I have been leaning towards the PT wood. I can work the wood but not the metal.

I did not think of the extra cross bracing and did not think it would be needed on these light gates. I was thinking of getting 8-10 foot posts and burying them at least 3-5 feet in the ground. BUT, I like your idea even though I will have to dig two more holes. From my pacing the road, the roadbed is about 30 feet wide, 18 feet in road with 6 feet of swale on each side. So I need some way to block off the extra six feet. I had some ideas but it sure will look better if I put in two PT posts with a cross beam to add strength to the gate posts. The farm store was selling some fence panels that I can cut to fit between the post and gate post. I think it will really look good.

I would really like to use metal posts just to provide a bit more security but our friends will have their house finished in a couple more months so the property will have at least some protection. Hopefully this fence and gate will be enough to keep the walking and driving trespassers out.

I figured I would put a rock or block to rest the ends of the gate when I left it opened. I had not thought of a rest when the gates where closed. I've been debating the length of the gate posts. I'm kinda leaning towards getting at least 10 feet of post so if I do have a sagging problem with the gates I could put a cable from the gate to the post. But I really can't see these light wieght gates having a problem. But then again an extra couple of feet in the post is real cheap compared with having to rip it all down and put in new posts to correct gate sag....

Good Ideas.

Hopefully in the next couple of weeks this will get done.

Thanks Again....
Dan McCarty

 

[dmccarty]

Bird,

The post holes might be on the big side! The backhoe has an 18 iinch bucket. If I get say an 8 inch post I'll have five inches of hole on each side of the post. That is the easy part. I THINK I can minimize digging on the back side of the hole if you now what I mean. One of the techniques I use when getting the big stumps out with the backhoe is to dig under the stump. I'll dig around the stump to open up the earth and then I get the bucket down in the hose as close to the stump as possible and start digging out. I'm thinking I'll be able to do something similar with the gates post holes. I'll end up with a hole 18 -20 inches wide and maybe 24-40 inches long. That is a bit big I suppose but the back hoe is the tool I have to use. I sure I'll be using a shovel to clean things up a bit. I'm SURE I'm going to hit some decent size rocks in the road bed which the back hoe will have to take out.

I'll let you know what happens. If work work allows I'll be doing this in the next couple of weeks....

Thanks...
Dan

 

[RobS]

Hi Dan, I put in a gate similar to what you mentioned last fall. It's a pretty light gage, galvanized steel tube 14 feet wide. The guy at Quality Farm recommended an extra long pole with a cable to support the free end of the gate or a guy wire from the post angled back to the ground. I didn't really like either of those options so I just set posts in (with concrete, not sure I'd do that again based on this thread) at the hinge and latch ends of the gate. I used 8' X 6" PT fence posts buried 4'. The one thing I did differently was to use a latch that supports the free end of the gate. When my gate is closed there is no bending moment on the hinge post, only vertical loads on both posts and that's not much since the gate is light. I put a rock in the open position to support the free end when it's open and I intend to replace that with a short post this spring. So now, the only substantial loading on the post is when I actually open and close the gate. Although I try to be diligent, I've tested it and it seems plenty sturdy to support the gate during opening and closing. I've instructed my six year old not to ride on the gate when I open it though /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

For a wider opening you may two gates, one on each side meeting in the middle. Obviously, you don't want a post in the middle of your lane. I've seen wheels that attach to the gate to support the weight and that may be a good option in this case. You probably only need one wheel as long as the non-wheeled gate is supported by the wheeled one in the closed postion.

Hope this helps /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[gerard]

ditto what robs said. I have horse pasture with 10ft tube gates. I sistered another post to the free end post and when closed the fence rests on this. We never leave the gate opened so I don't need to support it in the open position. There's a lot of leverage involved when opened and over time I think most posts would slowly allow sag unless braced in the opposite direction with a ground anchor or something similar. If you support the free end except for when actually opening it, the post setting becomes less important. (BTW we just dumped the dry mix in the hole and backfilled, then tamped and added a little water on top but we only used concrete on the corner posts, not the line posts.)

 

[Billc]

Here's another idea for gate support posts. Best of all no concrete is needed. Plant two Sweetgum trees, let them grow for 25 years, and guess what, you've got great gate posts...no digging, no cement, no welding /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Couple of ideas on this subject that goes back to a similar post about 2 months ago.

1. I connected a wire with one end in the tree about 5 feet above the hinges that runs to the top of the gate about 1/4 of the way from the end. The gate does not sag at all. I will always use this method from now on...if there is no tree, which is usually the case, I'll plant a long gatepost that is cross braced. I get really tired a gates that drag the ground.

2. We put up a Mule opener. It opens and closes the gate with a push of the button (like a garage door). I love this thing! When coming home push a button and it opens, push a button when you leave, it closes and locks. It works great! No more getting out and messing with the chain and lock. Can someone knock down the gate if they really wanted to? Yep. But then if they wanted to get in before all they need was a cheap set of bolt cutters. Also, I don't have power to the gate, we put up two solar pannels to charge the battery. It seems to be doing the trick.

3. The gate was unpainted galvanized tube about 14 ft., like what you can buy at any farm supply store. You can paint them any color you want. My wife said to paint it green. She meant Forrest Green, I mistakenly thought she meant John Deer Green. Opps! I know, I'm an Orange guy, but sure do like that JD green.

Like Jeff Foxworthy's joke: You may be a Red Neck if you've ever climbed a water tower with a bucket of John Deer Green paint to defend you sister's honor.

Bill Cook

 

[Billc]

heehaw,

You are putting up a fence to block the view of a blue mobile home? Hey, those New Holland dealers have to put their dealerships somewhere! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[dmccarty]

Here is what I did last weekend and what I'll be doing this weekend.

I went to the farm store last Saturday and did a lot of thinking and looking. I did not like the gate post material they had on hand. They had 12-15 foot long PT poles and 6x6 PT posts 8-12/15 feet long. The poles just did not looked treated enough. I could see where the chemical did not look like it had fully penetrated to the core of the wood.
I should have stopped at the local PT plant on Friday but I was to busy at work to do so.

I ended up getting 10 60 pound bags of Quickrete. The instructions said I should use 20 but I figured I could get it done with 10. I ended up getting two 6x6 and two 4x4 PT posts from Home Depot. They were slightly better than the farm store.

Sunday I burned a pile of wood I had been stacking for a couple of weeks. What fun. I hate the first hour of the burn and I sat around watching the fire for the first two hours making sure everything was fine. The wind started gusting when I had the fire going but after the first couple of hours, when the fire was down to a nice burn the wind stopped gusting.... Seems like that always happens....

Eventually I started the gate construction. I finally measured the roadbed with a tape. Roadbed meaning what ever is covered in gravel. After digging around in the grass, the road has been abandoned for 20 years or more, I was able to find the edges of the gravel. It looks like the road is 21 feet across. Look like I'm going to have to buy a 10 foot and 12 foot gates to make the span. I setup the tractor parallel with the road where the posts are going to be. I was able to dig two holes about 36-30 inches deep pretty quick with the backhoe. The holes were maybe 30 inche long. One hole is for the 6x6 which will hold the gate. The 4x4 I about six feet away from the 6x6 and will be used to support the gate posts as well as hold fencing material. The problem was the 4x4 hole. Its near a ditch that had a trickle of water from the constant rain we have been getting. As I was cleaning out the bottom of the hole with a shovel, guess what I found? A bunch of water! 8-( Grrrr... I started filling and tamping the hole to try to keep the fence out of the water but I'm not sure how successful I was. I ended up with the post maybe two feet in the ground. The 6x6 went it real easy. I put in large rocks in both holes as well as gravel to try to get some drainage. I think this is going to work on the 6x6 but the 4x4 is going to be wet.

By this time it was obvious I was not going to finish the other two posts on the opposite side of the road. I really wanted to get this done last weekend so this weekend I could hang the gates and finish the fence. But it looks like it will be another two weekends. 8-( If I had not done the burn I would have gotten most of this done.....

After I got the posts plumbed, I used three 1x.5 x36 inch stakes screwed into the post to hold everything in place, I started tamping in dirt and adding concrete. The 4x4 that was in the newly formed pond was a concern. My origional plan was for the 4x4's to get two bags of concrete while the posts got three. With that 4x4 being shallower than I wanted, I added a third and fourth bag. Since I knew I was not going to finish I added six bags to the 6x6 post! As I put in the concrete I added a bit of water from the ditch to get things going. I also added baseball to basketball sized rocks around the posts and in the concrete to add mass to the whole mess.

We have been getting rain all week so I'm sure there is not dry concrete in the holes at this point. This weekend I'll finsh the other side of the road and I supposed next week I'll finally hang the gates.

I'm going to be supprised if the posts move once everything is finished. The gate posts has 360 pounds of concrete plus another hundred pounds or so in rock. The gate post will be tied into the 4x4 support post for more rigidity. I don't think the gate weighs more the 50 pounds. If I see any sag in the gate I'll put in a cable to support the ends of the gate.

Lessons Learned:
- The backhoe will dig post holes. It does take a bit longer to tamp in the dirt in the unused part of the hole but its cheaper than getting an auger at this point. Good workout for the upper body!
- Square posts are more work than round ones. Square posts have to be made so that the faces line up in a row. Not really a concern a with round posts.
- I really did need 1200 pounds of concrete! 8-(

Hope this helps those who like to overbuild.....
Dan McCarty

 

[RJohnson]

I wished that I could of gotten to you sooner as the fire was a perfect opportunity to address the high water issue. Mother Earth News suggests that you char the outsides of the posts to a level 6 inches above the ground level. This will keep the micro-organisms that cause wood to rot to a minimum and increase the longevity of the posts.

Randy

 

[gvw]

Does the charring apply to treated or non-treated posts. I have been told - not sure where- that the fumes created by burning pressure treated or CCI posts is hazardous.