Posting private property

[bhh]

I recently purchased about 40 acres in the Catskills region of New York that was posted by the previous owners only along the road (roughly 1500)'. The back of the property (roughly 1600') borders a small trout stream that generally isn't fished by the public and the sides of the property are bordered by 5 other land owners. There is a large unimproved property that borders the stream on the other side. I am ordering signs to repost the property with my information on them and I was wanted to get people's thoughts on a few things. There is a house and barn on the property but we are typically only there on the weekends for the next few years.

Is it recommended to post the entire boundary of the property, which would be roughly 1.25 miles? I'd like to post along the stream to prevent hunters from crossing the stream onto my property but I don't really care if someone wants to fish in the stream but it is sort of an all or nothing thing I'm afraid. The stream crosses the road a few hundred yards away so someone could technically access it there without crossing through private property to get there and if I am not mistaken, people can legally walk the stream w/o trespassing since each landowner borders it and doesn't own both sides of it?

I'm also wondering if it is considered rude to post my property where it buts up against the back of other landowners property. Some of them are smaller "yards" whereas some of them are larger pieces of unimproved acreage. I am new to the area and don't want to be a bad neighbor but also don't want to get shot working the back side of my property during hunting season either.

The previous owners did allow friends and neighbors to hunt on the land and I have been contacted through the previous owners be a few people about hunting on it. Seems like people have been really good about that actually. I plan on hunting the property myself and attempt to manage the deer population as best I can with that small a property so I have basically just told people I am not allowing any hunting at all until I get a management plan in place and I am not really sure what the policy will be afterwards.

I'd appreciate people's thoughts on all this.

 

[brin]

bhh - it is tough...just be glad you don't have a pond, lake or swimming pool ... or do you ? Being the newcomer is always tough...but I think you are doing the exact right thing...set your rules and standards right up front..It is your property but understand there will be those who will be bitter because the previous owner let them hunt or fish or wander around.

I would suggest you introduce yourself to all the adjoining property owners and get a feel for the neighborhood...surely one of them will impress you and maybe be willing to keep an eye on your property for you when you are away. As far as the posted signs go...I went ahead a long time ago and placed posted signs on all sides of my property facing adjoining property owners land...I did mention to each of them it was to protect me from liability should a trespasser get hurt...or accidentally shot...since hunting did take place I would not want to be responsible for someone being in the wrong place at the wrong time...It seems they mostly understood...no trespassers so far and I have good relations with the neighbors.

 

[dave1949]

Congratulations on your new property.

Don't know about the stream access rights in NY State. I don't think it is very practical to manage 40 acres for large wildlife such as deer. They roam much farther than that depending on food sources, the weather, etc. You might have a deer trail that passes through your property, or not. Deer tend to follow the same general trails/areas year after year and they change seasonally.

 

[TripleR]

Excellent advice by Brin, so I will just concur. We use purple paint with a few signs mixed in. The previous owners let people in, we don't and for years we heard, "Well, so and so use to let me, hunt, fish, etc. Always politely I would remind them so and so didn't own the property.

With a small property it is really hard to establish and maintain a good game population while allowing a lot of hunters to come in, but you may find neighbors who are doing the same thing and work together with them.

Enjoy your new property; owning lad is really a great thing if you can pull it off.

 

[bhh]

I don't think it is very practical to manage 40 acres for large wildlife such as deer. They roam much farther than that depending on food sources, the weather, etc. You might have a deer trail that passes through your property, or not. Deer tend to follow the same general trails/areas year after year and they change seasonally.

Thanks for the comments so far, all very useful. I forgot to mention that the daughter of the previous owners live next door and they have been great and keep and eye on the place for us and she is how the previous hunters contacted us. She hosted a party when we first bought the place and we were able to meet some of the neighbors. It was really great of her.

As for deer management, I agree 40 acres is not really enough but we have a huge deer population and I routinely see 8-10 deer per weekend on the property and I've seen a few nice bucks as well, plus tons of turkey. Literally 22 turkey the day after Thanksgiving no less. There is a small (2-3 acres) "wetlands" type area in the back of the property and I know a lot of deer bed down there. What I mean by management plan is I may only allow bowhunters to take doe to help with population control, for example, and leave the larger bucks for me. Or I may not allow any buck under 6 points to be taken, etc. I just need more time to really get a feel for what is there, what I want, and what the land can bear.

 

[mvwicker]

In Missouri, there is an alternative to signs: purple paint. By statute, it is the same as a "Posted" sign marking private property, and is cheaper, more durable, and easier to put up. I was unable to find out whether NY has a similar law.

There are "Posted" signs along my road frontage, but not facing any dwellings. I for one would prefer not to be greeted by a "Keep Out" or
"No Trespassing" sign every time I looked out of my cabin at my neighbor's property.

 

[TripleR]

Thanks for the comments so far, all very useful. I forgot to mention that the daughter of the previous owners live next door and they have been great and keep and eye on the place for us and she is how the previous hunters contacted us. She hosted a party when we first bought the place and we were able to meet some of the neighbors. It was really great of her.

As for deer management, I agree 40 acres is not really enough but we have a huge deer population and I routinely see 8-10 deer per weekend on the property and I've seen a few nice bucks as well. There is a small (2-3 acres) "wetlands" type area in the back of the property and I know a lot of deer bed down there. What I mean by management plan is I may only allow bowhunters to take doe to help with population control, for example, and leave the larger bucks for me. Or I may not allow any buck under 6 points to be taken, etc.

Sounds reasonable, but with only 40 acres without involvement by your neighbors, it won't have much impact. We have about four hundred acres on two farms fairly close with about 170 acres in woods with ponds, row crops etc. and we regularly see "our deer" on properties a mile or so away.

You can create areas attractive to deer which we have, but I doubt you will be able to really change the makeup of the deer population in your immediate area.

Excessive hunting will have a significant impact as several years ago our population dipped really low as our neighbor allowed unregulated hunting on and adjacent to ours and deer stand were right on our property lines. The owner died and his wife no longer allowed hordes of hunters and the population has increased back to normal levels.

 

[rekees4300]

Is it recommended to post the entire boundary of the property, which would be roughly 1.25 miles?
I'd appreciate people's thoughts on all this.

Trespassing laws vary from state to state so you should familiarize yourself with NY laws (probably available online). For example in Indiana it doesn't matter how much land you have all you have to do is post one sign at the main entrance. Some other states you need one sign per so many feet. Everything depends on the laws in your state.

 

[dmccarty]

You need to find out the law and local regulations for your state and county. In NC, posting requirements are specified in the state statutes which needs to be followed. Late last year, the law was updated to allow purple paint to be used for posting as well as signs. There are specific legal requirements to meet the law when posting. Your county might have regulations as well.

As soon as we bought our place I posted the land. The NC Extension office has a very informative paper regarding land owner liability. Simply put, the best liability protection I can do is to post the land. NC has changed the law a bit which supposedly reduces landowner liability to land users under certain conditions. My best defense it to keep people off the land in the first place which is what we do. I don't need idiots shooting on my place which has happened in spite of the signs. I have chased people off twice and really not had a problem in years.

One group gave me the "We have hunted this place for years." lie which I ended quickly. These two twits were shooting either over my head at one point, at my kids, or at my neighbors. I could not quite see the angle they were shooting when I first heard them. If I had NOT posted the land these two twits could hunt legally on my land per state law. However, my county requires written permission from the landowner. If the twits had shot my neighbors, would I have been liable because I had allowed them on my land because I had NOT posted? I am sure a lawyer would have made the argument which is why I post the land.

- Research you state posting and trespass laws.
- Follows those laws when posting other wise the posting may not be legally enforceable.
- See if there is any advice from your state extension office.

I did not need to worry about neighbors when I posted since there weren't any. Talking with your neighbors might be a good idea to let them know you are posting and why. There have been posts on TBN about landowners being sued when uninvited people riding horses got hurt. By posting a person trespassing is committing a crime which makes it very difficult to successfully sue the landowner.

Later,
Dan

 

[brin]

In Missouri, there is an alternative to signs: purple paint. By statute, it is the same as a "Posted" sign marking private property, and is cheaper, more durable, and easier to put up. I was unable to find out whether NY has a similar law.

There are "Posted" signs along my road frontage, but not facing any dwellings. I for one would prefer not to be greeted by a "Keep Out" or
"No Trespassing" sign every time I looked out of my cabin at my neighbor's property.

There are "Posted" signs along my road frontage, but not facing any dwellings. I for one would prefer not to be greeted by a "Keep Out" or
"No Trespassing" sign every time I looked out of my cabin at my neighbor's property

MV ~`You make a good point...I should have said ... I did not place any posted signs directly facing any neighbors houses...that would offend me as well....so, no I did not do that nor would I but I sure put them every where else...

 

[dave1949]

Thanks for the comments so far, all very useful. I forgot to mention that the daughter of the previous owners live next door and they have been great and keep and eye on the place for us and she is how the previous hunters contacted us. She hosted a party when we first bought the place and we were able to meet some of the neighbors. It was really great of her.

As for deer management, I agree 40 acres is not really enough but we have a huge deer population and I routinely see 8-10 deer per weekend on the property and I've seen a few nice bucks as well, plus tons of turkey. Literally 22 turkey the day after Thanksgiving no less. There is a small (2-3 acres) "wetlands" type area in the back of the property and I know a lot of deer bed down there. What I mean by management plan is I may only allow bowhunters to take doe to help with population control, for example, and leave the larger bucks for me. Or I may not allow any buck under 6 points to be taken, etc. I just need more time to really get a feel for what is there, what I want, and what the land can bear.

Nice neighbors, that's always a plus.

It sounds like you have very rich wildlife plot. If the house has been unoccupied for some years, and there are people around on abutting lots, your lot could have become the deer gathering place. That would explain the hunting interest, it has probably been productive for some time now.

I think you are on the right track, watch and observe until you have a good idea of what is what. One thing I have experienced with high deer counts, is fairly mature forest areas (it was mostly red oak and maple) get browsed as clean as whistle. Between the full canopy and the deer, the ground was bare of seedlings, brush, grasses, etc. You can learn a bit about your land and the deer pressure level by fencing the deer out of a small area, say 50' x 50'. After a couple years, compare what is growing inside the fenced area to the outside.

 

[two_bit_score]

Every time I see one of these threads about a new owner posting property I am reminded about a story I was told about 40 years ago by an old hardware store owner in a small town in East Texas.

He related about how people from Houston or Dallas would come in and buy property and the very first thing they would do right after walking out of the closing is to go to the hardware store and buy posted signs. After they put them up the problems really started.

Wonder how long it will be before bhh is posting about a boundary dispute, trespassing hunters, kids riding four wheelers, etc, etc.

bhh, in all seriousness.....please spend some time and vist with the adjacent property owners and others in the area and then think long and hard about those 'posted' signs.

Maybe you've already done that. In that case carry on and I await your future posts.


.

 

[forgeblast]

Post it, Its yours. You seem to have a good relationship with the neighbors and their hunting buddies are doing the right thing by asking but I will still show where your property line is. Helps let others know where to put and not put hunting stands.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

In NY you need to post the entire property in order for it to be legal. If you don't want people trespassing you need to do it properly. If you don't do it properly then you can't press charges if someone does trespass.

I have found it is easier to post the property and let people ask for permission then to just have anyone and everyone going through there. This allows you to control who has access to your property and if you don't want a particular person on there and they go on it anyway you can have them arrested.

 

[nybirdman]

In NYS,I belive the law says a poster every 600ft.(check to be sure).And remember posters only keep out the honest hunters,use your local address not something away.Your land do what you want,but I would contact the neighbors or current hunters(who would be the best to keep an eye on the place).As far as the stream access,NYS law now if you don't touch bottom or shore you can access(canoe ect.)"some"deeds include the river or stream bottoms(these are rare).

 

[/pine]

Here in GA if you are on posted land hunting etc....you are required to have (in your possession) a written dated letter/missive saying you have permission to be there...permissions are seasonal and must be re-instated yearly....

 

[sam5570]

Thanks for the comments so far, all very useful. I forgot to mention that the daughter of the previous owners live next door and they have been great and keep and eye on the place for us and she is how the previous hunters contacted us. She hosted a party when we first bought the place and we were able to meet some of the neighbors. It was really great of her.

As for deer management, I agree 40 acres is not really enough but we have a huge deer population and I routinely see 8-10 deer per weekend on the property and I've seen a few nice bucks as well, plus tons of turkey. Literally 22 turkey the day after Thanksgiving no less. There is a small (2-3 acres) "wetlands" type area in the back of the property and I know a lot of deer bed down there. What I mean by management plan is I may only allow bowhunters to take doe to help with population control, for example, and leave the larger bucks for me. Or I may not allow any buck under 6 points to be taken, etc. I just need more time to really get a feel for what is there, what I want, and what the land can bear.

if you got deer you gonna have people we have delt with that for over 30 years we figured the only way to be fair was nobody but family hunts got it all posted every 50 ft a sign had to take a neighbor to court for trespasing after he ingnored my brother telling him he couldnot hunt that was 4 years ago not had any problem sense my opnion you just need to be firm with the people and most of them will get the message

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Here in GA if you are on posted land hunting etc....you are required to have (in your possession) a written dated letter/missive saying you have permission to be there...permissions are seasonal and must be re-instated yearly....

That doesn't apply to NY. People can legally go on private property if they choose to unless it is legally posted. It is a stupid law but one that we are stuck with

 

[moeh1]

NY is every 600 feet and each corner need to be marked both ways. There is a legal differnece between the no hunting and..." and "no trepassing" at all signs, as was explained at a recent conference I was at. One prohibits what it says, but not people coming thru... Worth doing your research. Also, there are "ask" type posted signs essentially inviting hunter to ask permission. Enjoy the new property.

 

[dmccarty]

Every time I see one of these threads about a new owner posting property I am reminded about a story I was told about 40 years ago by an old hardware store owner in a small town in East Texas.

He related about how people from Houston or Dallas would come in and buy property and the very first thing they would do right after walking out of the closing is to go to the hardware store and buy posted signs. After they put them up the problems really started.

Wonder how long it will be before bhh is posting about a boundary dispute, trespassing hunters, kids riding four wheelers, etc, etc.

bhh, in all seriousness.....please spend some time and vist with the adjacent property owners and others in the area and then think long and hard about those 'posted' signs.

Maybe you've already done that. In that case carry on and I await your future posts.


.

Posting HIS land is not going to cause problems with his neighbors. Posting his land is not going to cause "a boundary dispute, trespassing hunters, kids riding four wheelers, etc, etc." Those problems will occur with or without the signs. Years ago you did not have to worry about being sued because someone riding a horse on your land got hurt. When we were looking for land we were at a parcel talking with the owner. The owner, who was in his 80s, was born on the land that had been in his family for over a 100 years. As we were talking, a couple of guys moved onto his land while rabbit hunting with dogs. The owner asked me if I would go with him to get these guys off his land which I did. There is plenty of land around us that is posted by landowners whose families have owned the land since it was granted by the king. The signs don't cause the problems, it is the people who have been using other peoples land without permission that cause problems.

Later,
Dan