pouring cement in winter

[rambler]

Junkman, I appreciate your good manners. I would have to say, a moisture barrier with slits cut into it is about the same thing as no moisture barrier at all tho. You must just have dry soil or good drainage and no need for such a barrier or really good concrete that hasn't cracked in the area of the slits yet to let the moisture in.

If one wants a moisture barrier, do not cut slits in it in my humble opinion! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

--->Paul

 

[Junkman]

Let us for the moment say that the couple of slits will allow some moisture to migrate through the slits..... Now, if each slit is 10" long and there are two of them in a 10' x 10' area, the amount of moisture that will permeate through those slits in the plastic has to be a lot less than if there is no plastic barrier at all.... or to give you another example..... a boat with a 4' hole in the bottom is going to sink a lot sooner than a boat with a 4 mm hole in the bottom.... Remember that these are slits in the plastic that will close up after the water runs through them... I am not suggesting putting holes in the plastic vapor barrier, just slits.... You have gaps in the insulation of you home, but that doesn't keep the rest of the insulation from working does it? We need to keep things in perspective. The slits might not be the best way to do it, but then again, pouring in the winter isn't the best way either.
As for my garage floor having good drainage, it is quite to the contrary.... the water runs under the floor until it is caught by the footing drain that runs around the house foundation. I know this, because water will travel along the water line that comes from the well that is under the garage floor, and that water is picked up by the perimeter drain in the cellar as it runs down the wall where the water line enters the cellar. The garage floor is bone dry and has been so for 20 years with slits in the plastic..... lots of them at that!!!!!
I would like to know why you would think that the concrete would crack in the area that the slits were put into the plastic vapor barrier. I can not think of any reason that the slits would cause a failure of the concrete. Please explain your rational on this....
In this particular instance of vapor barrier slits, it doesn't matter any longer how much we agree or disagree...... the poster has told us that the floor was being poured on the 8th of December and today is the 9th...

 

[5030]

Hallowed Junkman:


I really wanted to put my hand print in his new concrete. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[rambler]

1. I did not mean that the slits would cause your concrete to crack. I meant that if (when, in most cases) the concrete cracks, it will provide a channel for water to wick through, and it will more likely do so over a slit. If your floor never cracks then you probably didn't need the vapor barrier. The barrier is there as an insurance policy. Why put holes in the insurance policy? The concrete will dry through the top surface in due time, whilre the slits will be there for 30, 40, 80 years waiting to cause a problem.

2. I've been leaving messages on discussion forums for 4 years, and it is surprising how many replies I still get to my Hotmail account for some of the old messages I've left 3-4 years ago on ytmag, Greenspan, and so on. While this particular floor is done & over with, the content of these messages lives a very long time, and I like to provide info to those who continue to read them for years to come. I'm sorry if my opinion offends you, but I think I have as valid an argument as you do. I bleive a vapor barrier without slits is much, much better than a vapor barrior with slits.

3. A vapor barrier with slits, whether under your floor or on your walls, is less of a thing than a vapor barrier without extra holes. That would seem intuitive.

4. I meant no attack on you. If this has worked for you, great. Out of 100 installations, I bet more basements/floors with slits in the barrier would leak than those built without the slits. I certainly would not intentionally slit a vapor barrier. A boat with no leaks is infinately better than one with either a 4' or 4mm hole. If one wishes to build a waterresistant floor, one with a whole & complete vapor barrier with as few holes as possible is the best. That seemed simple to me, I'm not sure what you are arguing against.

If it worked for you, great. I'm not upset about that.

--->Paul

 

[RichNJKubota]

I have been told that the usual platic vapor barrier that is put under concrete disentegrates in a matter of months.
I used a product called Tu-Tuff as the barrier. So far so good. My neighbor used polyethelene sheeting and now has moisture coming up thru the concrete and must use a dehumidifier as he stores classic cars.
You live and learn.

Rich

 

[5030]

Rich:

Maybe poly desinegrates in Jersey, but I have never heard of that around here. You guys must have a lot of contaminated ground up there because the standard liner for landfills is poly. Plastic is forever. Just like soft drink bottles in a landfill or oil jugs for that matter.

My wife is from Cherry Hill. Maybe I should see if she "glows in the dark"??

 

[RichNJKubota]

When something oozes out of the ground in New Jersey you know it ain't crude oil /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Just put that piece of poly over it and forget you ever saw it.

Rich

 

[TractorLuvr]

Everything should be fine, i dont think you have to do anything special with concrete in colder temps. Ive poured (23) 300 yards slabs at 3am in the middle of winter and they were just fine.

 

[jmc]

Follow up report:

As posted earlier, I went ahead and poured it when the lows were in the mid 20's F. during the following week or so. We used some high early. Liquid sealer sprayed on. Sawed it into 6 rectangles about 300 sq. ft. each. Covered it with visqueen and straw and let it set for 3 wks. Moved in the 14k lb backhoe, 7.5k tracked loader, CUT, F250 PU. No visable cracks except at the end of one saw cut where it should be. So far, so good.

I spent a lot of time filling and compacting the base. The contractor commented that when the cement truck drove in, the ground didn't give at all.

Two comments for others thinking about doing a barn floor:

The residual wheat in the straw attracted every mouse in the neighborhood. They were waiting for their "motorhomes" to arrive.

That sealer on well finished cement is like ice when the snow melts off the equipment. You need to walk deliberately. But it sweeps well. Guess you get one or the other.

Thanks everybody,

John

 

[Evasive1]

Glad to hear it went well.

Although we did not like to we poured many a basements and floors in below freezing weather and never had a problem. We would use hot water and cover it with concrete blankets. Concrete blankets are not cheap either but are worth there weight in gold if pouring in freezing conditions. You could put your hands under the blankets and it would actually be hot under them from the concrete curring.
Just a comment about vapor barrier's. We would work extremely hard when laying down vapor barriers not to rip, tear or cause any holes at all in them. A vapor barrier is exactly that a barrier, any hole in your plastic and it is not a barrier anymore. In a basement the static water pressure outside a wall and under the floor can become extremely high and if there is a hole in a barrier I guarantee the water will find its way there.