Power Beyond Option Questions

[uhmgawa]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( With hyrdaulics, you can use the return line sometimes for a pressure port, but it wasn't meant for that.

--->Paul )</font>

Even if a valve would withstand such pressure in the tank
(return) port there is the functional issue in the valve
of the tank port being pressurized. A cylinder may not
be able to retract due to both ports being under pressure.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

rambler:

<font color="blue">Now, 'power beyond' is a truely generic term used in all of hydraulics by all companies. Perhaps JD used it a lot more, but it is wrong of you to 'blame' JD for using it. I think (and you asked) what people are looking for is you to say, "Whoops, I goofed, I didn't realize PB was a generic hydraulic term! Sorry." and leave it at that.</font>

The original point (and the only reason I posted in this thread at all) was to attempt a clearer explanation to yooperdave's original post, a post which indicated some confusion over so-called power beyond and remotes. Please reread his original post. The fact that "power beyond" is a generic term isn't really the point, is it? JD uses it in such a manner as to create confusion in the minds of some prospective customers. PLEASE NOTE: some JD owners discussing it in this thread have capitalized it. What does that tell you-proves the point, doesnt it!

<font color="blue">There is an appearence you want to chuck rocks at JD</font>

Indeed. Using a term, generic or otherwise, in such a manner as to mislead at least some of their prospective customers, yes. As far as their products, one of the tractors I seriously considered was the JD 990. Really nice, solid basic tractor made by Yanmar. Even had a metal fuel tank. Really liked it. Highly rated engine, etc. The reason I didn't buy it wasn't because of their hype, but the specs on the FEL & BH. Also, hydraulic flow was not as quite as good as NH ("Power Beyond" or "power beyond" nothwithstanding). Another reason I didn't buy the JD was their multi-lingual owners manual which I view as laziness on their part and disrespectful to their American customers/market. Yet, as stated above, you have to give them credit for their marketing ability. Even their designs make an effort to tie current models to look like older ones-compare, for example, their grills (the 990 for example) with JD models from the 1960s. Nice.

The purpose of language is to communicate from one brain to another. I wonder what percentage of potential buyers walking into JD showrooms would know that "Power Beyond" is really availability of access ports to divert hydraulic flow to external uses? You may know that. I may have discovered it in a few minutes asking what it was after it was touted as a special feature. But how many never asked and went away thinking JD was offering them something unique?

JEH

 

[hayden]

In reading through this, I think part of the confusion here is that the same words are being used to mean different things.

Some people are refering to "power beyond" simply as the capability to add more hydraulic controls, taps, etc in addition to those already outfitted on a tractor. I think this is the meaning being attributed and associated with JD. This use does not imply HOW the additional devices are connected, simply whether or not it can be done.

The other use of "power beyond" is being used to describe a particular plumbing technique for adding additional controls, taps, etc. This plumbing technique has nothing unique to do with JD or any other manufacturer. It's like series versus parallel wiring in electricity.

I know only enough about hydraulics to be dangerous, but let me try to explain the two ways to set up multiple hydraulic controls in an open-center hydraulic system.

Basically, the controls get plumbed up in series so the fluid flows through each one in turn, ultimately dumping back into the tank. In the absence of PB, this series connection is the only plumbing involved, and each devices OUT port connect to the next IN port. This works, but with restrictions. The simplest way to look at it is that you can only use one device at a time for a few reasons. First, the first active device in the series will potentially reduce oil flow to subsequent devices making them inoperable. Second, the first device can be "blocked" from operating because a subsequent device is also activated and causing back pressure on the first. If you never use more than one control at a time, this will all work fine, but it does have restrictions. Several people on TNB have set up Topand Tilt controls this way and had no trouble using them (I think Bird did his this way).

The way to overcome the restrictions described is to provide a "drain" port for each individual control valve. I call it a "drain" because the fluid is never under pressure in these drain lines. This gets a bit confusing because this "drain" is called the OUT port, and the port that goes to the next valve is now called the "PB" port. With a separate "drain" for each valve, you never get backpressure from activated down-stream valves, and hence two controls can be operated at the same time. The only restriction is that the valves must share the available fluid flow from the pump so operating more than one at a time can slow each of them down.

I hope this helps rather than confusing things more.

Peter

 

[MossRoad]

<font color="blue"> guess I shoulda typed faster </font>

Hee hee! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[dixy1dog]

Hi Guys,now that we have PB what some of the things we can do with it ?Ken

 

[RobS]

<font color="blue"> Hi Guys,now that we have PB what some of the things we can do with it ?</font>

Well Ken, in my case I hook my backhoe up to the PB, start moving those control levers around and all of a sudden every last bit of stress from the workday disappears. It's just like magic /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

PB by itself is somewhat limited. Backhoes, log splitters and anything else that has it's own valving. Power Beyond, without some valves only supplies continuous hydraulic power /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Dahammer]

People actually think "power beyond" is a marketing trick by JD and it leads sheep to think that they get more power "beyond" their normal flow?? /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif LMAO...I honestly think that individual should hire all tractor work out....BTW any posts in the archives asking how much more "power" their "power beyond " kit adds??? Were are these misled souls hiding out and were are the posts? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif............. LOL.............

 

[MossRoad]

Don't laugh so hard. There are plenty of things out there that don't make sense to folks unitl they are explained a different way. That's why people ask questions. This is the place to ask them. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Anonymous Poster]

<font color="blue">that don't make sense to folks until they are explained a different way</font>

That's completely true. I'm sure that when the writer came up with that it made perfect sense. Hydraulic Power beyond the tractor frame used for implements that have their own valving/flow control. But when a person looking for a 30hp tractor reads it they see Power Beyond the 30 horses. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif