Power Conditioning Options While on Portable Generator

[bcs001]

I know this has been discussed in various threads but I'm looking for a good solution that I can implement in 2-3 locations where my sensitive electronics are located while running the whole house on a Duromax XP1200EH. From the reading I've done here and on the web, I know an online double conversion UPS seems to be a good local point option. The way I have my home setup, all the modems, routers, switches, access points and soon-to be server PC are all centrally located and can be run from one ~900 watt unit. I also have an office where I can run 2 laptops, printers, phones etc from another 700-900 UPS. That leaves a large LCD smart TV, satellite box & soundbar in one room and everything else in the house unprotected.

Depending on the cost for each UPS I could add additional point protection in other locations but so far from what I have seen shopping for these units, the decent ones are running $700-$1000 each. Maybe there are other options that can be suggested from the experts here? Long term I plan to install a permanent whole house backup that will include power conditioning but for the next 2-3 years this is what I have. I've been running without protection for a few years now but I know it is causing a slow degradation of the electronics as I can hear the engine bog down when large loads kick in like the well pump and refrigerators.

According to Duromax the XP1200EH has the following specs:

"DuroMax portable generators will output an average total harmonic distortion (THD) rating of about 5% under steady loads and may increase under heavy or fluctuating loads to 12% temporarily for less than a few seconds. Our open frame models will produce a sine wave, not a modified or square wave. This is perfectly acceptable for running most common electronics found in your home such as TVs, computers, appliances, etc."

12% THD is very concerning and I can see the LED flood bulbs flickering at time. They also seem to burn out way faster than expected and I am attributing that to the time I run on generator power.

Thanks for any suggestions and hopefully others will find this thread useful and informative.

 

[arto98607]

I have ran our modem, router, Wi-Fi, TV and PC's on our dual fuel 3.2 kW Firman inverter generator without any problems!

Not sure if there are any 12 kW inverter models available?

 

[ponytug]

I know this has been discussed in various threads but I'm looking for a good solution that I can implement in 2-3 locations where my sensitive electronics are located while running the whole house on a Duromax XP1200EH. From the reading I've done here and on the web, I know an online double conversion UPS seems to be a good local point option. The way I have my home setup, all the modems, routers, switches, access points and soon-to be server PC are all centrally located and can be run from one ~900 watt unit. I also have an office where I can run 2 laptops, printers, phones etc from another 700-900 UPS. That leaves a large LCD smart TV, satellite box & soundbar in one room and everything else in the house unprotected.

Depending on the cost for each UPS I could add additional point protection in other locations but so far from what I have seen shopping for these units, the decent ones are running $700-$1000 each. Maybe there are other options that can be suggested from the experts here? Long term I plan to install a permanent whole house backup that will include power conditioning but for the next 2-3 years this is what I have. I've been running without protection for a few years now but I know it is causing a slow degradation of the electronics as I can hear the engine bog down when large loads kick in like the well pump and refrigerators.

According to Duromax the XP1200EH has the following specs:

"DuroMax portable generators will output an average total harmonic distortion (THD) rating of about 5% under steady loads and may increase under heavy or fluctuating loads to 12% temporarily for less than a few seconds. Our open frame models will produce a sine wave, not a modified or square wave. This is perfectly acceptable for running most common electronics found in your home such as TVs, computers, appliances, etc."

12% THD is very concerning and I can see the LED flood bulbs flickering at time. They also seem to burn out way faster than expected and I am attributing that to the time I run on generator power.

Thanks for any suggestions and hopefully others will find this thread useful and informative.

I'm sorry that you don't have power. I hope that you have enough fuel for your needs. Congratulations on having a working generator. Don't forget to check the oil daily!

A few thoughts. One, don't believe generator specifications. They may or may not be as bad as they claim. (And can certainly be worse!) Unless you hook up your power quality meter ($$$), there is no way to know. Two, and perhaps more importantly, I think what you really want to know is how does it affect your equipment. That's a whole other ball game.

Having quality surge suppressors around the house helps reduce the "EMF noise" on the power. They won't help the voltage and frequency sags when your AC kicks in, or your water pump kicks in. (And vice versa when they stop.) Your UPS will help with all of that.

It sounds to me like you have it covered, unless you have been having issues with the TV/satellite box / sound bar. Personally, I would put them on a quality surge suppressor, and call it good enough. If you have been having issues, then yes, a pure sine wave online UPS is what you need.

As a FYI, as you add online pure sine wave UPS units around the house, they will add some, not a lot, but some, buffering of the whole house EMF noise.

In my book, pretty much everything electronic from the washing machine on up ought to be on a good surge suppressors. There are so many electronic boards embedded in appliances and other equipment. I think that a few surge suppressors are cheap insurance.

One final thought: I try not to have UPS loads be more than a third, or so, of the rated power of the UPS. I think that many UPS units are under cooled/overrated and running them at closer to their ratings causes reduced lifetimes, at least in my experience.

All the best,

Peter

 

[DarkBlack]

Surge protectors only attempt to draw down momentary over voltages. They don’t do anything to clean up a dirty 60hz sine wave. Anyone telling you otherwise is selling bs.
Linear power supplies are getting rare. Computers etc are all running switchers. The front end of these convert to dc, so noisy 60hz isn’t a big deal other than some transients passing through.
Any Electronics company worth their name, knows they need to design in a decent power supply worth their reputation which means a power supply Able to reject and/or process noise on the 60hz sine wave.
If you think you spent a lot of $ on a product with a substandard power supply, then, probably get yourself a good dc-ac converter.
But, no, a “surge protector” power strip isn’t going to do anything at all to clean up a dirty sine wave other than cost more

 

[ponytug]

Surge protectors only attempt to draw down momentary over voltages. They don’t do anything to clean up a dirty 60hz sine wave. Anyone telling you otherwise is selling bs.
Linear power supplies are getting rare. Computers etc are all running switchers. The front end of these convert to dc, so noisy 60hz isn’t a big deal other than some transients passing through.
Any Electronics company worth their name, knows they need to design in a decent power supply worth their reputation which means a power supply Able to reject and/or process noise on the 60hz sine wave.
If you think you spent a lot of $ on a product with a substandard power supply, then, probably get yourself a good dc-ac converter.
But, no, a “surge protector” power strip isn’t going to do anything at all to clean up a dirty sine wave other than cost more

Yes, you are right, a gas tube or a metal oxide varistor isn't going to clean up power.

However, most quality surge strips do include capacitors and inductors that definitely do help clean up the power.
Here's one from Isobar/Eaton;

Buyer beware!

All the best,

Peter

 

[bcs001]

I wasn’t aware that certain surge suppressors can help with power conditioning but that’s good to know. I do have a Siemens First Surge 140 who house suppressor installed at the main box. Maybe it helps to a degree but is it enough?

Assuming additional protection would be good insurance, are there any recommendations for specific dual conversion UPS brands that offer good balance between cost and performance? I have read that some brands of battery backups do not like the “dirty” input power when running on generator and will drain the battery instead of passing generator power thru.

 

[CalG]

Hmm, I've got an old instrument isolation transformer out in the shop. It likely came out of a spectrophotometer or the like. Maybe I should dust it off and see what it can do!

 

[ponytug]

I wasn’t aware that certain surge suppressors can help with power conditioning but that’s good to know. I do have a Siemens First Surge 140 who house suppressor installed at the main box. Maybe it helps to a degree but is it enough?

Assuming additional protection would be good insurance, are there any recommendations for specific dual conversion UPS brands that offer good balance between cost and performance? I have read that some brands of battery backups do not like the “dirty” input power when running on generator and will drain the battery instead of passing generator power thru.

I think that the Siemens is great for the house generally, but unlike the surge suppressor strips, it really is only for attenuating voltage spikes.

I think that the other nice thing about the surge suppressor strips is that the clamp voltage tends to be lower than the whole house surge suppressors that gives your home electronics a little more buffering.

@CalG that isolation transformer helps a little; the limiting item tends to be the quality of the insulation in the windings. So they are good for smoothing over small voltage fluctuations and high frequency noise, and for separating neutral from ground, but not that great against surges.

All the best,

Peter

 

[zzvyb6]

I believe that just about all modern electronics run fine with dirty A/C because they convert the input voltage to a D.C. operating requirement in all cases. So, why worry? If still on the fence, then an inverter genny will give you what is wanted. Buy based on ratings. There are quite a few diesel inverter generators out there now...

 

[DarkBlack]

Yes, you are right, a gas tube or a metal oxide varistor isn't going to clean up power.

However, most quality surge strips do include capacitors and inductors that definitely do help clean up the power.
Here's one from Isobar/Eaton;

Buyer beware!

All the best,

Peter

That certainly looks like a premium surge protector, almost like a power conditioner. It’s definitely not your average $15 “surge protector”.
I’d be interested in some actual specifications on it other than just a joules number.