Power Line Logging Project

[Jstpssng]

Not to steal Moss's suggestion, but to expand a little; here's a discussion on the Forestry Forum which might be helpful. (I like the idea of using a pickup or tractor instead of a winch, although you should have 2 people; one to pull, the other to spot.)
http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=18395.0

 

[dstig1]

The grapple is a lot faster and easier

 

[luvmexfood]

I tried parbuckling and it's not for me. Here's what I don't like about it:
1. You have to lift the log somehow once it's beside your trailer to get your cables or chains under it.
2. If the log diameter is larger on one end then that end will roll farther with each roll resulting in the log getting very crooked on your ramps even coming off them if not careful.
3. You must get your cables or chains hooked with exactly the same amount of slack and the pulling cable must be centered between the cables that go under the log. Otherwise you pull one end of the log before the other end starts. Log gets crooked on your ramps in a hurry.
4. If loading a second layer you have to hook your cables to the opposite side of the trailer from your ramps to get your logs to move on across. Then you have to contend with getting your cables out from under the log.
5. If you have side rails on your trailer like I do when you get your log to the top of the ramp it's a big thud when they drop onto the trailer floor.
6. When you skid your log up beside your trailer you don't have much room for error about where you stop.

With that said a lot of logs have been loaded by parbuckling. It's just not for me. Tried it several times and it's much easier for me to winch over the back.

 

[timster2]

Passed by the mill today and got some information. Seems they have some local haulers that will come out and take a load to the mill for an estimated $200-$250 per load. They seemed to encourage me to load up the trailer and give it a try. They will take anything over 10" on the small end 8' to 16' in length. The rest I guess will become firewood. They don't take any conifers but did give me the number of a sawyer that will come and mill it up for siding for my garage project. Still waiting for the surveyors to come out and mark the ROW for the road and power line. As soon as they do I have a arborist that will help me mark the marketable timber and give me an estimate of the value.

 

[Jstpssng]

It sounds like you had a good idea all along what you were getting into, and just needed to dot your tees and cross your i's. (Or something like that. ) For that distance you can haul a lot of logs to save $200.

Have fun. :thumbsup:

 

[Sawyer Rob]

I tried parbuckling and it's not for me. Here's what I don't like about it:
1. You have to lift the log somehow once it's beside your trailer to get your cables or chains under it.
2. If the log diameter is larger on one end then that end will roll farther with each roll resulting in the log getting very crooked on your ramps even coming off them if not careful.
3. You must get your cables or chains hooked with exactly the same amount of slack and the pulling cable must be centered between the cables that go under the log. Otherwise you pull one end of the log before the other end starts. Log gets crooked on your ramps in a hurry.
4. If loading a second layer you have to hook your cables to the opposite side of the trailer from your ramps to get your logs to move on across. Then you have to contend with getting your cables out from under the log.
5. If you have side rails on your trailer like I do when you get your log to the top of the ramp it's a big thud when they drop onto the trailer floor.
6. When you skid your log up beside your trailer you don't have much room for error about where you stop.

With that said a lot of logs have been loaded by parbuckling. It's just not for me. Tried it several times and it's much easier for me to winch over the back.

Sounds to me like you NEED a lot more parbuckling PRACTICE!

I used it on and off for many years in the past, and still do it on occasion...

It works great and has been used for MANY years before any of us came along!

SR

 

[timster2]

Is there a scheme or standard for marking trees for harvest? Different color paint or symbols , circle, big X, spots, stripes, tape in different colors etc? Would like to start getting some supplies together if needed. Could this be different for the north east vs. the west or south? Trying not to over think this but also trying to cover all my bases as well. Took another walk through the woodlot today with the little bit of knowledge I have learned so far. Seems there is a lot more timber that may make its way to the mill than I originally thought.

 

[Jstpssng]

Make it simple but effective. No there is no "standard", but I always paint so that the cutter can see the mark on whatever side he's on. I.E., a long diagonal stripe
( vvv )
\|/
l l
I/l
l l
as I walk up to the tree, another on the back side when I'm past it.

One time down in upstate New York I stood on a trail next to a bluff when the forester said " see if you can get a trail up to the top of that." I got up on top and there was a big stand of extra nice cherry. I was painting smilie faces on all of the veneer... I'm not sure what the cutters thought when they got there. (this was when stumpage was going for a buck a foot)
Then I marked a trail back to the landing in pink ribbon.

 

[luvmexfood]

Sounds to me like you NEED a lot more parbuckling PRACTICE!

I used it on and off for many years in the past, and still do it on occasion...

It works great and has been used for MANY years before any of us came along!

SR

Just stated that it's not for me and gave reasons why and that it had been used many times in the past for many years. I gave the reasons why I don't like it so maybe if someone decides to try it they can think of away to overcome these obstacles before hand.

Maybe before you are so quick to tell someone they NEED to practice you could list some helpful hints to overcome these problems.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Maybe before you are so quick to tell someone they NEED to practice you could list some helpful hints to overcome these problems.

Sure, if you practice a little, you will figure out how #3 on your list, can be used to FIX #2 on your list...

SR

 

[smstonypoint]

Is there a scheme or standard for marking trees for harvest? Different color paint or symbols , circle, big X, spots, stripes, tape in different colors etc? Would like to start getting some supplies together if needed. Could this be different for the north east vs. the west or south? Trying not to over think this but also trying to cover all my bases as well. Took another walk through the woodlot today with the little bit of knowledge I have learned so far. Seems there is a lot more timber that may make its way to the mill than I originally thought.

I am not aware of any standards, but my consulting forester has used blue plastic tape to mark the boundaries of the areas to be logged.

For the case of selective logging, he used red spray paint to mark an X at the base of each tree to be harvested. That mark was placed below the level at which the feller/buncher would saw down the tree. A stump without the X would have indicated that the logger had taken down the tree without permission.

Steve

 

[timster2]

So far the color of the paint doesn't seem to matter no rhyme or reason, from "whatever is on sale at Walmart" to blue for boundaries and any other color for "save trees" and no color for "take" trees. Sent an email to an arborist friend that will help with the marking to get a list of supplies, tape, paint etc. Most of what I have read has indicated that marking the stump below the cut line is important to keep track of what is taken. Still waiting on the surveyors to officially mark the road. Did spend some time enhancing the known points along the property line with some brightly painted PVC pipe slipped over the rebar that I have found.

Every time I walk along the proposed road I start inventorying just how many larger trees will be cut down. Its hard to gauge just how much lumber is there when you stand next to a tree and can only see the first ten feet or so. My neck is so screwed up I can't look up and see the top of the tree without backing up a hundred feet or lying on the ground

 

[smstonypoint]

So far the color of the paint doesn't seem to matter no rhyme or reason, from "whatever is on sale at Walmart" to blue for boundaries and any other color for "save trees" and no color for "take" trees. (

Per the recommendation of my consulting forester, I used blue paint when blazing the trees along the property lines of my farm. He said that blue paint would be easier to spot than red or orange, especially in the fall when leaves are turning.

FWIW, I think I remember reading that some states require that blazing trees along property lines be carried out by a surveyor.

Steve

 

[Jstpssng]

It's a lot easier to see the trees if you step back a bit... in fact when we're cruising that's expected. (Back in my days of contract cruising we were required to take a tree height on every cruise point, going back 50 or 66 feet while using a clinometer.)

For property lines we use paint specifically designed for the purpose. Some of the older lead base paint is still visible after 30-40 years. Spray paint works for a while but fades quickly.

On my own lines I prefer to spot them with an axe and let them heal for a growing season before painting them.

For large scale timber marking they make paint guns and paint that works well with them. As mentioned above if you don't trust the contractor you paint the stump (I used a stripe, and attempted to put it where the bark won't get knocked off when the skidder runs over it.)
It costs $3-5/ cord to mark wood though, so anybody who sells on a large scale prefers to hire contractors they can train to reduce the need to paint the timber.
Oops, now I digress.

 

[luvmexfood]

Bright blue is a color that usually doesn't occur in nature so is a good choice. I paint a lot of my tools I use in the woods bright blue to make easier to find. Tongs, hatchet etc. Tongs seem to be hard to find if they fall off during skidding. Having them bright blue helps to locate them. Forget orange in the fall. Just like camo for your tools.

 

[timster2]

Well time for an update. The surveyors were finally here to lay out the actual road bed for the access road. Had a forester walk the property with me and marked the trees that I should send to the mill. A logger has been interested in taking the logs and has stopped by with some mill price info. In conversation with him he stated that the cherry trees need to get to the mill within a few weeks or they start to rot and the bark loosens. Once that happens they are firewood. Does anyone know what the logic or reason for that is or am I being fed a line so he gets in and gets the job. What time frame is involved from the time they are cut. They should be cutting by the end of the week.

I am still considering doing some of the hauling myself. A quick walk through the property with the wife yesterday and we counted about 45 black cherry trees >12" at breast height and another 40 or so assorted maples. Don't know what that will yield as far as board feet, however, I think its worth the effort. Pictures to follow when the sawdust starts flying.

 

[Jstpssng]

Well time for an update. The surveyors were finally here to lay out the actual road bed for the access road. Had a forester walk the property with me and marked the trees that I should send to the mill. A logger has been interested in taking the logs and has stopped by with some mill price info. In conversation with him he stated that the cherry trees need to get to the mill within a few weeks or they start to rot and the bark loosens. Once that happens they are firewood. Does anyone know what the logic or reason for that is or am I being fed a line so he gets in and gets the job. What time frame is involved from the time they are cut. They should be cutting by the end of the week.

If you refer back to post 7, I mentioned this and gave you this link. When are veneer logs felled and sliced? | American Hardwood Export Council

I am still considering doing some of the hauling myself. A quick walk through the property with the wife yesterday and we counted about 45 black cherry trees >12" at breast height and another 40 or so assorted maples. Don't know what that will yield as far as board feet, however, I think its worth the effort. Pictures to follow when the sawdust starts flying.

And this http://www.ozarkforestry.org/fieldgradinghardwds.pdf gives a pretty good overview of what to look for.
Specs vary depending on the mill's product (also how badly they need the wood at that time) , you would need to talk to the buyer to find out exactly what they're looking for.

 

[arrow]

Well time for an update. The surveyors were finally here to lay out the actual road bed for the access road. Had a forester walk the property with me and marked the trees that I should send to the mill. A logger has been interested in taking the logs and has stopped by with some mill price info. In conversation with him he stated that the cherry trees need to get to the mill within a few weeks or they start to rot and the bark loosens. Once that happens they are firewood. Does anyone know what the logic or reason for that is or am I being fed a line so he gets in and gets the job. What time frame is involved from the time they are cut. They should be cutting by the end of the week.

I am still considering doing some of the hauling myself. A quick walk through the property with the wife yesterday and we counted about 45 black cherry trees >12" at breast height and another 40 or so assorted maples. Don't know what that will yield as far as board feet, however, I think its worth the effort. Pictures to follow when the sawdust starts flying.

Wood decay always ends up at the heart wood. It takes a while however as most decay and fungal damage starts with an outside wound of some sort caused by bark abrasion, birds, insects, wind damage, etc. I am not sure what your guy is telling you about the necessity of getting a particular species of tree to the mill in a hurry from simply being cut. If the wood is indeed compromised in some way, it would have had to happen a long time ago and had already existed when the tree was felled.

 

[timster2]

jstpssng The article mentions fungal stains developing in the logs used in veneer. Is this the same problem that would developed in all the cherry? The article only mentions how they keep the logs fresh but not how long it takes for the problems to develop. I assume temperature and humidity have an effect on the fungal staining. It should be turning cool over the next few weeks with night temperatures in the low fifties or high forties, don't know if that will have an effect on the deterioration rate as it relates to the quality of the logs.

Because I cant look up, due to frozen neck, when standing next to the tree I have no idea of the quality of the tree until its felled. Stepping back from the tree I get too far away to see defects or even the top of the tree. My plan is to take a log or two to the buyer and let him give me an idea of what I did wrong or right and then work on the rest of the logs. The forester that walked the property with me seemed to think that the cherry was a good quality and would yield good logs. Thanks for the link to the grading overview that will help with the first attempt at bucking the logs.

 

[newbury]

I'm familiar with fungal stains in maple, it's termed spalting. But a quick search did not turn up references to spalted cherry.

You should bounce your questions on cherry tree processing off your forester.