POWER SERVICE ADDAITVE ?

   / POWER SERVICE ADDAITVE ? #21  
john_bud said:
Last winter nearly everyone was gelled up with the USLD fuel. -15F and it was lights out. PS didn't do diddly. Switched to Howes Diesel Treat and for winter use have to give it the nod.

Not all PS products offer anti-gell. Make sure you were using the correct bottle


john_bud said:
I think the ingredients in PS are mostly mineral spirits. Not good for lubricity!
.

I don't hink it is MS.. and you would be surprised what different chemicals can be used for. check out naptha.. etc..

Soundguy
 
   / POWER SERVICE ADDAITVE ? #22  
As to Frank's orginal post I put 4 oz of PS into each tank. White bottle PS in winter and grey/silver bottle PS in summer. I know it makes my Kubota B7800 run much better but perhaps I should be cutting it down to only 2/3 oz per tank? We get a lot of 5F to 40F weather in November, December, March and April up here so condensation is an issue.

When I bought my Kubota last year I bought a container of fuel at the local VW dealer. After I ran through my first tank of fuel I put the fuel from the VW dealer. After an hour of running it my motor died and I had to leave my new tractor in the forest 1/2 mile from the house.:( Apparently there was a lot of water in that VW dealer fuel.

I changed my fuel filter-that didn't help so I drained the fuel tank and cleaned the filter and bowl. I bought a Mr.Funnel and some PS-the tractor has been running great since then.
 
   / POWER SERVICE ADDAITVE ? #23  
Soundguy said:
Not all PS products offer anti-gell. Make sure you were using the correct bottle


I don't hink it is MS.. and you would be surprised what different chemicals can be used for. check out naptha.. etc..

Soundguy


Ok, Just to clarify -> the guy from Florida is telling the guy from Wisconsin to check that the correct PS was used! {Chuckle} Yeah, PS in the white bottle. I actually was using a double dose and still gelled. Put the truck in a heated shop at 70F for 24 hours, added a full qt of PS in the white bottle and gelled up again in 10 miles (-15F). Those filters are spendy when you change them every 20 miles!

Added Howes Diesel treat and all was well.

As an experiment, I ran the kubota in the non-heated shop. The clear fuel bowl showed lots of snot on the filter. Added Howes to that tank and in 15 min of idleing the filter was clear.

I don't use PS anymore. I have enough Howes for the winter.


Oh, I did study the ingredients in most diesel treatments. Mineral spirits is the most common one. I got that from cross referencing the chemical ID's in the MSDS's. Mineral spirits, Naptha and "petrolium distillate" were the most common ones.
 
   / POWER SERVICE ADDAITVE ? #24  
In the years I have been using PS, I only had one time where the gas gelled and that is because I left a full tank of summer blend in the plow truck then tried to plow in -3 degree temps, the truck barely started before stalling. I put a dose of Power Service Diesel 911 and let it sit for 15 minutes. After that it started right up and worked all day. I keep a bottle of that and a PS white bottle in the truck all winter.

d911.jpg
 
   / POWER SERVICE ADDAITVE ? #25  
john_bud said:
Ok, Just to clarify -> the guy from Florida is telling the guy from Wisconsin to check that the correct PS was used! {Chuckle} Yeah, PS in the white bottle. I actually was using a double dose and still gelled. Put the truck in a heated shop at 70F for 24 hours, added a full qt of PS in the white bottle and gelled up again in 10 miles (-15F). Those filters are spendy when you change them every 20 miles!.

Hmm.. I was thinking more of the red bottle PS.. ( 911 ) or the blue/white bottle ( arctic express ).

soundguy
 
   / POWER SERVICE ADDAITVE ? #26  
Dmace said:
In the years I have been using PS, I only had one time where the gas gelled and that is because I left a full tank of summer blend in the plow truck then tried to plow in -3 degree temps, the truck barely started before stalling. I put a dose of Power Service Diesel 911 and let it sit for 15 minutes. After that it started right up and worked all day. I keep a bottle of that and a PS white bottle in the truck all winter.

d911.jpg

I am going to buy some of that 911 stuff-thanks for the tip!
 
   / POWER SERVICE ADDAITVE ? #27  
Z-Michigan said:
Does it cause fuel dilution of the oil, damage the injectors, is it corrosive, what? Not disagreeing, just hoping for more info.
Here is how PS engineering replied to my email concerning this topic

(PS Advisor) is power services support persons answer to my statement or question.

Statement:As usual misinformation is the norm on most website
forums intending to educate.

Statement:It has been suggested that adding to much PS Diesel supplement to the fuel will cause adverse effects
due to diluting the engine oil and causing internal damage to the engine .

PS Advisor: There is some truth to this however it only occurs at very high over treatment rates and is a topic to discuss over a cup of coffee and is more theory than an actual everyday problem. If you didn't ever change the oil then over time enough blow by could occur and then some adverse changes to the oil could occur. Again we are dealing with what will not typically happen and is over hyped on the internet by those who want to look important or knowledgeable but really has little to no practical application.

If you add too much antigel product to your fuel you can, in some fuels, get less antigel protection. This is called a reversion. You can safely use a single or double treat rate of our antigel products, Arctic Express or Diesel Fuel Supplement (DFS), and this will not cause any adverse affect to the engine or oil.
You can triple treat but usually the extra benefits are not worth the extra costs. If you are using Biodiesel then sometimes you have to triple treat to get
the max benefits and protection. If you 5 times treat then you could get too much antigel into the fuel and some black smoke may occur. This would be
costly to do and most people who do this do it by accident. At 5X the treat rate the blow by that gets into the oil crankcase might have a thickening affect on the
oil but not likely to cause a real problem. Highly unlikely to cause any engine damage and is more theory than actual fact.

Question:The subject comes up due to the fact that many diesel vehicles and off road equipment have small fuel tanks that require a bit of math to adjust the recommended 32 oz to 100 gallon recommended ratio formula.


PS Advisor: If you are using the quart bottle then use 1 ounce to each 3 gallons of fuel. This will help measure out additive for small amounts of fuel.

Question: I own an older diesel compact tractor that I mix PS Supplement with the fuel due to the low sulpher (Most likely Ultra Low Sulfur Fuel) fuel that is available at the pump.The tractor has a 9 gallon tank. I regular mix 4 oz of Supplement to every tank simply because
I have a recycled 4 oz container available which I fill to the full line at the top which makes it easy to do since there is no measuring involved. This is only slightly more then the suggested ratio

The question I have is, if I increased the amount to more then 4 oz
to help with lubrication and the cold starting we encounter in N.E. Ohio
do I risk damage or accelerated wear, to any componet of the engine or fuel system?

PS Advisor: No, absolutely not. For 9 gallons a single treat rate would be 3 ounces
of DFS or if you want to max out your protection then you can add 6 ounces of DFS and not have any adverse affects to the engine or the oil. We suggest
that you do not exceed a double treat rate but if you did triple treat this would not cause any damage or problems to the motor or oil.

Question:Is there a ratio where a particularly excess amount of PS Supplement added to the fuel would be damaging?

PS Advisor :Yes, there is a point where you could affect the
flash point of the fuel but to get to this rate you would have to go crazy to add that much. We have conducted testing at 5 times the treat rate and the only problems encountered are that the engine will start to smoke, too much detergents at this level could interfere with cleaning injectors, antigel levels at this treat rate can end up giving you less antigel protection due to Cold Filter Plugging Point reversion. It is possible to adversely affect the flash point of some fuels but not likely for most fuels (Flash Point of fuels vary so some diesel fuels have higher flash points than others). If you change the flash point outside the ASTM D975 standard of the fuel then it is possible to adversely affect the engine.

Question:The claims are that the extra additive doesnt burn "off" completely and then mixes with the oil and causes internal engine damage.

PS: Well, again this can happen at very high levels and way above the recommended treat rates. This is just some exercise in theory and really does not apply to the real world since most people are not going to over treat at a level to cause this type of problem.

Best Regards,


Brian Wilson
bwilson@powerservice.com
Compliance Coordinator
Technical Advisor

800-643-9089
 
   / POWER SERVICE ADDAITVE ? #28  
Great information, Thanks.
 
   / POWER SERVICE ADDAITVE ? #29  
Mahindra35 said:
(PS Advisor) ...is over hyped on the internet by those who want to look important or knowledgeable...
:) :D
 
   / POWER SERVICE ADDAITVE ? #30  
Very useful and comprehensive, thank you.

Of course, the way to be 100% sure would be UOA's of identical equipment, some running PS at recommended level, some at 2-3x recommended level, and others running no PS at all. Anyone have three identical diesel motors they want to do this test for us with?
 

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