Power Steering Issue Terramite T5C

[Terramite Connecticut]

I have a 1993 Terramite T5C with a power steering problem. The Kingpins are working correctly however there seems to be no hydraulic power to the steering cylinder from the pump. I can steer the tractor using the steering wheel however it is slow and difficult to operate the steering wheel. I can do this with the engine running or not running. This tells me that the steering box and power steering cylinder are working correctly.

I called the Terramite Service Dept. and was told that it probably was the Adapter Plate in the transmission and that the cost would be something in the area of $400.

I would like to hear from others who may have had this problem and would like to know if they were able to solve this without the expense of this part. Is some sort of repair or alternate hydraulic circuitry possible?

 

[El Laton Caliente]

Wish I could help, but my steering problem was a simple kingpin...

 

[Jmm097]

I put a quick connect on one of my stabilizer valves, I plug supply line to steering system from there, When I need stabilizer I simply disconnect power steering connection and then connect stabilizer.

Works fine, just need to set up something to keep valve partially open when running power steering, I used a door latch, cut a notch to keep valve held open partially, when not needed I flip it up out of the way.\

 

[Terramite Connecticut]

Thanks for your input. It looks to me like you did pretty much what I was wondering about.

My thought was that it should be possible to put a "T" on the output side of the pump at whatever location might be convenient, somewhere between the pump and either the loader or backhoe valve bodies. From that "T" run a line to another "T" or maybe a direct line to the input side of the power steering. What you describe has the same effect as what I was thinking.

My concern is whether the main side of the hydraulic pump puts out more pressure than the power steering circuit can tolerate.

Do any of the readers know what the maximum output pressure of the main hydraulic system and the maximum output pressure of the power steering port on the pump might be?

 

[Jmm097]

You will run into a problem if you t off the supply, it is an open loop system so the fluid is going to take the path of least resistance, it will not be enough pressure to work the power steering cylinder. You can t into the return line but need a dedicated power supply, that is why I went to the stabilizer valve.

 

[Jmm097]

The tractor I did it on did not have power steering at all, I installed a power steering system from another tractor. On your terramite does the supply line to power steering valve come out the bottom of the charge pump?

 

[cstamm81]

did you ever figure this out? I just picked up another Mite and the power steering is out. I haven't dug into it yet...

 

[Terramite Connecticut]

did you ever figure this out? I just picked up another Mite and the power steering is out. I haven't dug into it yet...

Sorry, I have not gone any further than calling Terramite. They suggested that the probable problem part would be something that they call the "adapter plate" The cost of which is $450. For now I am living with the steering being hard as it is and will probably take the power steering pump apart in the Spring. I am hoping that after an inspection I am able to make a repair and if not then it looks like I will be buying the part I need from what I am hoping will be another source at a lower price.

I have another T5C with working power steering and the difference is really day and night but even without the power steering working, the machine is still a little work horse.

 

[cstamm81]

I am going to try and call Terramite tomorrow hopefully. I started another separate post on here about this as well. I also asked in the hydraulics forum. Funny, I also have two machines and it is night and day with working power steering.

 

[the old grind]

Cstamm81, I'm with you on the other thread, esp if you'll keep me in line.

Terramite Connecticut, please keep an eye on us there. There doesn't seem that much to the adapter plate unless it's leaking/bypassing internally. Could a dab of weld & some light machining close a gap worn somewhere? # 58 on p 2.10 is called 'poppet filter relief' (pt # varies by gas/diesel). It's at the the upper corner of the plate, on the side not the one on top. Could plugging &/or a jam there be hindering flow to the steering box?? Oil can get between the wire mesh and inner layer of a hose causing it to balloon inward and block flow. Checking that might not be as easy as swapping one out. btw: TSCs here seem to stock hoses to T-M's specs with the right end threads & at several lengths. They must be common stuff ...

 

[bd53bz2]

I decided to fix my 1994 t5c -same trouble no power steering. I put a gauge between pump and steering box (tee'd in) yep no pressure, I found a good (and free) repair manual on the Eaton site. Just get your model number that is stamped on the motor side flange. I now have the tranmission on the work bench, disassembled it and found that the metal relief seat pushed through the alumimum threads of the adaptor plate. I can't see anyway of fixing it except buying the plate. Heard it costs 400. I really have to get the thing working because Sandy created a mess here. Have stumps and a inground pool to remove and fill in in the spring..

 

[cstamm81]

I have a post in the hydraulics forum about this. I too have a 1994 T5C and I just verified that I only have 20-40psi off of that pump. I too was wondering if my issue would be repairable, or if I need to just get the plate. Did you pull the entire trans out, if so do you feel this is easier than trying to take the adapter plate out with everything installed? Terramite service guy told me 20 minute job, just loosen rear pump, loosen plate and slide out.
Do you have any hydrostatic trans or rear pump issues? TM told me they sell the plate for 400, the plate with the hydro trans for 1400, and I did not get a price on the entire assembly.
Any chance you have pics of any of this you could post up? I will be digging into mine in the next week. Might just order the plate tomorrow, I too would really like to get mine going.

 

[cstamm81]

oh, and what are the chances we could buy this plate, or the whole assembly from someone other than TM and save money? I'm curious if the whole assembly is an off the shelf part, or if TM bolts everything together.

 

[the old grind]

bd53bz2, can you link us to that Eaton repair manual? T-M's shows no moving parts except the gerotor assy and a drive coupling. I just can't get it out of my head that plate repair might be possible with some tig-welding and a bit of machining. They said it's about the plate itself, right?

cstamm81, if expedience warrants replacing the plate, I'd like to see what can be learned from one that's been pulled.

Anyone following this can see more here: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/hydraulics/267636-no-power-steering-terramite-5.html

 

[Terramite Connecticut]

I decided to fix my 1994 t5c -same trouble no power steering. I put a gauge between pump and steering box (tee'd in) yep no pressure, I found a good (and free) repair manual on the Eaton site. Just get your model number that is stamped on the motor side flange. I now have the tranmission on the work bench, disassembled it and found that the metal relief seat pushed through the alumimum threads of the adaptor plate. I can't see anyway of fixing it except buying the plate. Heard it costs 400. I really have to get the thing working because Sandy created a mess here. Have stumps and a inground pool to remove and fill in in the spring..

From your description it sounds like you may have found the cause of a problem that effects a number of Terrmites.

Is it possible that you could make some pictures of the part that is damaged and post them in this forum?

I am particularly interested because I have a T5C with the same power steering problem. I have a Bridgeport miller at my disposal and am an experienced repair machinist. If you like I could come to you to see what you have learned and make photos and perhaps let you know what I can add to a possible repair. None of us is looking forward to replacing an expensive part if it can be avoided. I would post photos to share with the others who are interested as well.

 

[bd53bz2]

OK guys, here it goes...
My machine is unique because it came with a factory diesel. You have to verify the trans yiu have. the assembly number is stamped on the flange next to the firewall. (seen from the ground)
Mine has;
70142RHR model is 70142, R is right hand rotation (because it is a diesel)
E940907GD Serial 1994,Sept09 ,day 7.

When I tested mine I also had a 1/4" ball valve in line with the gauge, so I could close off the flow. Normally, the fluid passes through the steering box when not turning.
So, the 20-40psi might be right. Should run up to 200 to 300 psi under load.(valve closed)

I removed my trans just to make life easier, and to work in the garage. It's no big deal to remove it, you have to drain the oil in either case and its only three more hoses and couple of bolts.

I'm a ex welder by trade. I said no way to fix it, because of the way the relief bore was drilled and tapped. It was stepped drilled and tapped. 2" in was a smaller thread diameter to accept the threaded seat. The larger outer thread is for the plug holding the spring etc. My seat pushed the alumimum threads out into the return galley. There is no way that I can see fixing the bottom of this bore, Even a helicoil can't be used.

On buying else where... Eaton wants u to use their service centers. on the site I used my ZIP and nothing came close to here in the northeast. I bit the bullet this am and ordered from TM. U guys are lucky, because the diesel one is $100 more!!!

For mine, here is the links:

Parts
http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/public/@pub/@eaton/@hyd/documents/content/dev_216878.pdf

Repair
http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/public/@pub/@eaton/@hyd/documents/content/dev_216879.pdf

 

[the old grind]

From your description it sounds like you may have found the cause of a problem that effects a number of Terrmites.

Is it possible that you could make some pictures of the part that is damaged and post them in this forum?

I am particularly interested because I have a T5C with the same power steering problem. I have a Bridgeport miller at my disposal and am an experienced repair machinist. If you like I could come to you to see what you have learned and make photos and perhaps let you know what I can add to a possible repair. None of us is looking forward to replacing an expensive part if it can be avoided. I would post photos to share with the others who are interested as well.

'TMC' I'll defer machining & request for pulled parts to you since you're closer to the other guys. We might be on the same page as to cleaning up one bore/cutter at a time. With or without welding-up, if you D&T to a new diameter for the 'seat' one might make/thread a new piece or bushing to fit it. btw: I'd like to think the 'adapter plate' is the same regardless of trans model & I'd still like to help owners in this jam knowing my day, or anyone's, to need the 'fix' may come too....
-jon

 

[bd53bz2]

Got some pics as requested.....




Relief valve assembly ...threaded seat is to the right




Picture of problem area


Adapter plate in question georotor side

Look closely, can see threads of seat in return passage

How parts are inserted...




Trans in vise. Just another note; If u were to try it in the machine , the bolts for the adaptor plate also hold the backplate of the trans. Horizontally u would drop it


Hope this all helps,
Tom

 

[thetucks]

Has anyone had any luck finding any other place to buy this adapter plate other than tm? my father in laws t5c has the same problem. thanks.

 

[wdchyd]

Here's some more pix of another housing that is damaged

this pump had less than 1 hr on it.........the customer bought a new complete pump, installed their-selves, then one of the drive motors locked up while it was on the maiden voyage
We fixed the drive motor (bearings came apart internally) then yanked the pump and found this

contamination from the drive motor got stuck in the charge pump section and main piston section......when the customer changed the pump they should have yanked all the motors and freshened them up with new seal kits (they would've found the root of the problem was actually a bad hyd wheel motor)

You guys should proceed with caution when working on these units cuz they are working directly with the drive motors and share the same oil back and forth

Many hyd shops will not work on hydrostat pumps without doing the corresponding drive motors to cover their butts