Power steering problems

[Orangegroveguy]

Recently, I purchased a very used Deutz 6806 tractor. When I first looked at it, the motor ran great, but the power steering was stiff. After a few minutes run time, the power steering loosened up and I decided to drive it home as it was only a few miles from my house. On the way home, the steering became looser and looser until finally, I had no steering at all. The steering wheel turns freely, but the front wheels do nothing. I called a tow truck and had it towed the rest of the way home. Once at home, I checked the fluid in the transmission and discovered it was low, (the power steering pump runs off fluid from the transmission). I filled it to the proper level, started the tractor, but still, no response from the steering. There is a bleeder valve at the end of the hydraulic cylinder which controls the front wheels. I did open the bleeder valve and oil mixed with air bubbles came out, but still the wheels do nothing. What am I doing wrong? What is the proper way of bleeding this system? Any and all help you can give me will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance - Glenn.

 

[oldnslo]

Recently, I purchased a very used Deutz 6806 tractor. When I first looked at it, the motor ran great, but the power steering was stiff. After a few minutes run time, the power steering loosened up and I decided to drive it home as it was only a few miles from my house. On the way home, the steering became looser and looser until finally, I had no steering at all. The steering wheel turns freely, but the front wheels do nothing. I called a tow truck and had it towed the rest of the way home. Once at home, I checked the fluid in the transmission and discovered it was low, (the power steering pump runs off fluid from the transmission). I filled it to the proper level, started the tractor, but still, no response from the steering. There is a bleeder valve at the end of the hydraulic cylinder which controls the front wheels. I did open the bleeder valve and oil mixed with air bubbles came out, but still the wheels do nothing. What am I doing wrong? What is the proper way of bleeding this system? Any and all help you can give me will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance - Glenn.

Glenn,
What do you mean by the steering was stiff? Wheel was hard to turn & or slow to respond?

When the steering stopped working was there any resistance when turning the steering wheel?

Can you see where the power steering control unit is? Are you sure the steering wheel is connected to the steering unit? Some of these have a coupler or universal joint system that could possibly come undone or wear out.

 

[Orangegroveguy]

When I first started the tractor and turned the steering wheel, the steering wheel was hard to turn, but within about a minute, it started turning easier and easier until finally it felt "normal." The front wheels responded and that's when I decided to drive it home. I was about 500 feet from the road and the steering worked normally. Once on the road however, the steering was less and less responsive, like it was running out of fluid. It got to the point that I had little steering at all, I could turn the steering wheel round and round, but the front wheels would barely respond. Suddenly, I had no steering at all. I could turn the wheel in circles with absolutely no response from the front wheels. We were in a bad spot, a thunder storm was brewing, so we called a tow truck which towed us home. Once at home, I checked the transmission level which was low. I added fluid, but still no response. The power steering unit on this tractor draws fluid from the transmission. Beneath the steering wheel, under the dash is a "box" (the best I can describe it) with hydraulic lines running to it. These lines connect to the power steering pump which is located at the front of the motor. Lines also run from the pump to a hydraulic cylinder that runs parallel with the front axle and there are return lines from this cylinder back to the transmission. There is a bleeder screw/bolt on the end of this cylinder. I have tried to bleed the system via this bolt/screw but without success. I worked on it four hours yesterday and managed to get a slight amount of pressure/resistance at the steering wheel and the front wheels moved maybe an inch, and then the steering wheel spun freely again. This is the first tractor I have ever owned that has power steering and I am at a total loss on how to get this thing going again. After doing a lot of reading, I think one of my issues might be air-entrainment. the front cylinder, (the one that runs parallel to the front axle) does leak at the seal, (fluid drips out when the steering wheel is turned to the right) and I think air is pulled in when turned to the left. Another question I have is what kind of fluid should I be running. The man I bought it from said he's owned the tractor for about five years and has put 80W90 gear oil in the transmission, but I'm wondering now if perhaps that is the wrong fluid and I should use Hy-trans fluid. Do you think this could be part of my issue as the gear oil might not contain anti-foaming agents or not enough anti-foaming agents to counteract the small leak in the hydraulic cylinder. Any thoughts or ideas - thanks for the reply and thanks in advance for any and all help you can give - Glenn.

 

[oldnslo]

Not familiar with Deutz but would be very surprised if they run 80W90 for the hydraulics and power steering. I suspect hy-trans would be a better choice but again not 100% sure of this. If the pump is starving for oil & If their is enough air in the steering system then yes the steering wheel would spin freely. The stiff slow sluggish turning was from low oil volume being supplied.

I would strongly recommend you stop running this tractor or you may ruin the pump from lack of oil.

If you do change to hy-trans you will have to drain as much of the 80W90 out as possible. You may also have to change or clean the suction screens or filters if this model has them.

 

[Spanner]

+1 with 'oldnslo'.

Tractors are like humans - They aren't meant to 'leak' fluids.

Drain the 80W90 out. It is incorrect.

Locate and remove the Suction Filter screen and clean it thoroughly.

Replace the Hydraulic Filter can.

Remove the Steering Ram and have the leaking seals repaired.

Reassemble and tighten hose connections.

Fill transmission with the Hy-Trans mentioned or something similar from your local tractor dealership. Not 80W90.

Start engine and cycle the steering wheel a few times and check for correct operation.

The "box with pipes under the dash" is the Steering Orbital" valve. It is somewhat complex. Ask PO if it is possible he carried out any work here involving removal/refitting of hoses whereby he may have fitted a couple in incorrect locations? It is not uncommon. Usually causes stiff steering or Steering Wheel becoming self-moving. :confused2:

:wrench:

 

[Orangegroveguy]

Thank you, thank you and thank you for the guidance. Like I said earlier, I have never owned a tractor with a power steering unit or even hydraulics for that matter. I have always used an old Case model "D" to do my work, but it's getting rather long in the tooth, so when I saw this tractor and heard it run, I jumped on it thinking to give my old "D" a rest. I talked with the original owner who told me he has never messed around with the steering unit or any of the hydraulic lines. What he did when he got it about five years ago was to change the fluid because he felt it was time for a change, believing the fluid was probably the original factory fill. Not knowing what to put in it, he assumed since it was going in the transmission, it needed to be gear oil - thus gear oil was used. In the five years he owned it, it saw light duty work. He owned five acres and would use this tractor to pull a small disc to keep the weeds down. He did this every two or three months, so the tractor saw a lot of "sitting under an oak tree" time. Hopefully, because of that, no major damage was done by using the wrong fluid. I won't be able to work on it till Monday, but I'll keep you guys posted on progress. Thanks again. Hopefully I can get this ole gal running right - she's got a strong motor and I think will serve me well. Glenn

 

[buickanddeere]

When I first started the tractor and turned the steering wheel, the steering wheel was hard to turn, but within about a minute, it started turning easier and easier until finally it felt "normal." The front wheels responded and that's when I decided to drive it home. I was about 500 feet from the road and the steering worked normally. Once on the road however, the steering was less and less responsive, like it was running out of fluid. It got to the point that I had little steering at all, I could turn the steering wheel round and round, but the front wheels would barely respond. Suddenly, I had no steering at all. I could turn the wheel in circles with absolutely no response from the front wheels. We were in a bad spot, a thunder storm was brewing, so we called a tow truck which towed us home. Once at home, I checked the transmission level which was low. I added fluid, but still no response. The power steering unit on this tractor draws fluid from the transmission. Beneath the steering wheel, under the dash is a "box" (the best I can describe it) with hydraulic lines running to it. These lines connect to the power steering pump which is located at the front of the motor. Lines also run from the pump to a hydraulic cylinder that runs parallel with the front axle and there are return lines from this cylinder back to the transmission. There is a bleeder screw/bolt on the end of this cylinder. I have tried to bleed the system via this bolt/screw but without success. I worked on it four hours yesterday and managed to get a slight amount of pressure/resistance at the steering wheel and the front wheels moved maybe an inch, and then the steering wheel spun freely again. This is the first tractor I have ever owned that has power steering and I am at a total loss on how to get this thing going again. After doing a lot of reading, I think one of my issues might be air-entrainment. the front cylinder, (the one that runs parallel to the front axle) does leak at the seal, (fluid drips out when the steering wheel is turned to the right) and I think air is pulled in when turned to the left. Another question I have is what kind of fluid should I be running. The man I bought it from said he's owned the tractor for about five years and has put 80W90 gear oil in the transmission, but I'm wondering now if perhaps that is the wrong fluid and I should use Hy-trans fluid. Do you think this could be part of my issue as the gear oil might not contain anti-foaming agents or not enough anti-foaming agents to counteract the small leak in the hydraulic cylinder. Any thoughts or ideas - thanks for the reply and thanks in advance for any and all help you can give - Glenn.

TractorData.com Deutz D 686 tractor information
I would be tempted to go back to the previous owner and give him a scathing blast of wrath.
Assuming that Deutz has wet clutches or wet brakes , they maybe damaged with the 80/90 gear oil .

 

[oldnslo]

One would presume the steering worked while he was discing so hopefully no major damage. My Uncle had a couple air cooled Deutz and they were tough tractors.

Best wishes in getting this operating.

 

[Orangegroveguy]

Update on Deutz 6806: Forgive me for taking so long to get back with everyone, I've been trying to work on this tractor between rain storms and other jobs. A week ago yesterday, I drained all the transmission fluid from the Deutz. The tractor has three drain plugs, one of which is directly under the drawbar. I removed two plugs - one at the front of the transmission, one at the back. Out came 10 gallons of the 80W90 gear oil installed by previous owner. It was VERY watery - almost like the color of milk. I replaced that with 10 gallons of Cam2 303 hydraulic fluid. I then ran the tractor and tried to "prime" the system with no success. I opened the bleeder screw on the end of the hydraulic cylinder. Bubbles came out, then "spurts" of fluid followed by squirts of fluid - then it started to rain. I tightened the screw and quit for the day, (it rained the rest of the day). Yesterday, I drained the 303 fluid, (all ten gallons). As before, I pulled the front and rear plug on the transmission and when the fluid came out, it had a little bit of water mixed with the oil, but not nearly as bad as the week before. After I drained all the fluid from these two drain holes, I decided to remove the drawbar and pull the third plug, (this plug is between the two I had previously pulled). A big dollop of mixed water and oil came out - about two quarts. Additionally, this third plug has a magnet attached. The magnet had a large amount of gunk mixed with metal "dust" on top. I assume this is normal wear from 40 years of use and I seriously doubt this plug has ever been pulled. I left all three plugs removed with drain pans beneath each plug and pumped five gallons of 303 oil through the fill hole, using a small hand pump. I was able to move the hose from the hand pump around inside the transmission. I did this until no more water-oil mixed fluid flowed from the drain holes. I then re-installed all three drain plugs and the transmission with 10 gallons of new 303 oil. I cranked the tractor and ran it about ten minutes, shut it down and checked the fluid level which was right on the fill mark. I cranked the tractor again and opened the bleeder screw. As before, bubbles and then squirts of fluid. The steering wheel had a "bump" feeling as I turned it and a tiny bit of response at the wheels. Then it started to lightly rain. I put all my tools away, threw a cover over the tractor just in time for it to start pouring rain - it rained the rest of the day. As a side note, with all this draining, cleaning and adding of new fluid, my hands were soaked with 303 oil. Even after washing my hands several times, today, I have the softest, smoothest hands I've ever had in my life.

 

[CincyFlyer]

Update on Deutz 6806: Forgive me for taking so long to get back with everyone, I've been trying to work on this tractor between rain storms and other jobs. A week ago yesterday, I drained all the transmission fluid from the Deutz. The tractor has three drain plugs, one of which is directly under the drawbar. I removed two plugs - one at the front of the transmission, one at the back. Out came 10 gallons of the 80W90 gear oil installed by previous owner. It was VERY watery - almost like the color of milk. I replaced that with 10 gallons of Cam2 303 hydraulic fluid. I then ran the tractor and tried to "prime" the system with no success. I opened the bleeder screw on the end of the hydraulic cylinder. Bubbles came out, then "spurts" of fluid followed by squirts of fluid - then it started to rain. I tightened the screw and quit for the day, (it rained the rest of the day). Yesterday, I drained the 303 fluid, (all ten gallons). As before, I pulled the front and rear plug on the transmission and when the fluid came out, it had a little bit of water mixed with the oil, but not nearly as bad as the week before. After I drained all the fluid from these two drain holes, I decided to remove the drawbar and pull the third plug, (this plug is between the two I had previously pulled). A big dollop of mixed water and oil came out - about two quarts. Additionally, this third plug has a magnet attached. The magnet had a large amount of gunk mixed with metal "dust" on top. I assume this is normal wear from 40 years of use and I seriously doubt this plug has ever been pulled. I left all three plugs removed with drain pans beneath each plug and pumped five gallons of 303 oil through the fill hole, using a small hand pump. I was able to move the hose from the hand pump around inside the transmission. I did this until no more water-oil mixed fluid flowed from the drain holes. I then re-installed all three drain plugs and the transmission with 10 gallons of new 303 oil. I cranked the tractor and ran it about ten minutes, shut it down and checked the fluid level which was right on the fill mark. I cranked the tractor again and opened the bleeder screw. As before, bubbles and then squirts of fluid. The steering wheel had a "bump" feeling as I turned it and a tiny bit of response at the wheels. Then it started to lightly rain. I put all my tools away, threw a cover over the tractor just in time for it to start pouring rain - it rained the rest of the day. As a side note, with all this draining, cleaning and adding of new fluid, my hands were soaked with 303 oil. Even after washing my hands several times, today, I have the softest, smoothest hands I've ever had in my life.

Man, that was like watching an exciting TV show that ends abruptly with "To be continued ..." Hopefully this is fixed (of course, any hydraulic cylinders will need to be cycled (FEL, BH, 3-point) to make sure that any trapped water is removed from them. Hopefully your pump isn't trashed.