Power Trac Lube

[Charlie_Iliff]

After a bunch of snow plowing, my PT1845 developed a rusty-hinge type creak when turning. I hadn't been particularly religious about lube intervals, so when the noise started I greased everything, oiled all the ball joints, etc. , with no change in the creaking. Terry, at Power Trac immediately suspected the ball end(s) on the steering cylinders, as did Sedgewood, but I had sprayed oil on them with no effect, and had even taken the cylinders loose and articulated the machine by hand to verify that the noise wasn't in the center joint.
After a couple more oil applications, and a bunch of inconclusive diagnostic hydraulic tests, including sticking the bucket in a snow pile and sliding the front back and forth with the steering, the noise went away.
My current working theory is that Terry and Sedgewood were right all along. It occurred to me in the middle of the night that if the ball joint were filled with water, oil would float on the outside and not change anything. It took some loading and turning to get a little oil actually inside.
If that theory is correct, it may make sense periodically to wash the ball joints with WD 40 to displace water, and then apply copious amounts of the lubricant of your [Power Trac's] choice.
Terry advised much more frequent lube than the book recommends. For the tilt mechanism, particularly, he says to give it a shot before use. That often isn't really necessary, but only takes 30 seconds. He has one in the shop now which bound up and bent.
The center articulation joint is particularly high load and constant use. That one also only takes a few seconds to hit with a gun, and may save pretty costly damage.
<font color="red"> Lube Rule: If some's good, more's better. </font>

 

[Sedgewood]

Charlie: <font color="red"> Lube Rule: If some's good, more's better. </font>

Today I took your lube advise to heart, lubed everything, and ten minutes later...

<font color="red"> After a bunch of snow plowing, my PT1845 developed a rusty-hinge type creak when turning </font>

Go figure! So I put my hand on the hydraulic reservoir to see if I could feel the creak. Nope. Then on the frame just forward of the center joint. Yup, quite strongly. Then on right steering cylinder barrel. Same. Then on left cylinder barrel. A bit stronger maybe? Ok, out comes the oil can again. Squirt again the left front cylinder ball. No change. Squirt the left cylinder rod and rear ball. Two steers and away goes the creak. Note how this dummy squirted both the cylinder rod and the rear ball! So now which was dry?

Sheesh,
Sedgewood

 

[MossRoad]

I'm using white lithium spray grease for all the ball type ends and hit the cylinders occasionally. Are you guys doing things differently?

 

[Bob999]

<font color="red"> squirted both the cylinder rod and the rear ball! So now which was dry?
<font color="black">
My money is on the rear ball!
The cylinder rod is lubricated by the hydraulic oil in the cylinder. The seals wipe the rod clean. One of the problems with oiling the rod externally is that it will then collect dirt if it is not immediately wiped.

 

[johara1]

this is something i talked to terry about,i asked him way they don't use grease fittings.he told it would drive the cost up,and spraying worked.a grease fitting pushes the dirt and water out,spraying traps it in .i don't think there is enough material to drill and tap for a zerk fitting.i think a small 1/16 hole with a slight taper on the out side and use a pointed grease end like on some u joints would work

 

[bubenberg]

the same and more and more frequently in the snow ,slush and salt(chemicals)

 

[Sedgewood]

MossRoad: <font color="green">I'm using white lithium spray grease for all the ball type ends and hit the cylinders occasionally. Are you guys doing things differently? </font>

Bob999: <font color="green"> The cylinder rod is lubricated by the hydraulic oil in the cylinder. The seals wipe the rod clean.</font>

I used spray lube 'til the can stopped spraying then got out the oil can. This is the first time I oiled a rod but it sure looked dry. I tend to think the snow wipes it clean and the seals are too good to lube it enough to prevent the creak. I'm not sure about this but I had just lubed the rear ball before the creak. Now to get some lube free seat time so I can do a better test /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Sedgewood

 

[johara1]

the rods on hyd.cyl.(1) don't need oil, the wiper ring will take it off (2)the rod should be chrome.this problem is common in the winter the grease will not go in with out heat.this is why you have zerk fittings, the pressure is needed. even with that we warm the gun up!there is grease made to be used under water,syn.grease is even better

 

[johara1]

just one other thing,if would use lithium grease on the equip. we make a living with we would all be out of work.it's not made this application. it's better used on on hood and trunk hindges

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

<font color="red"> just one other thing,if would use lithium grease on the equip. we make a living with we would all be out of work.it's not made this application. it's better used on on hood and trunk hindges
</font>
Johara1:
Got a specific lubricant recommendation for the spherical ends on the various cylinders, particular steering which is in the snow a lot? I have some spray lube of indeterminate ingredients which claims no solvents which I used last. Without grease fittings, liquid is the only choice, without pulling the pins and rolling the bearings around in grease.

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

<font color="red"> i don't think there is enough material to drill and tap for a zerk fitting.i think a small 1/16 hole with a slight taper on the out side and use a pointed grease end like on some u joints would work </font>

Question: If the spherical rod end does have enough metal to insert a zerk, or a hole is drilled (assuming you can get to the inside to deburr) will the grease that is injected distribute properly? Or stated another way, are spherical rod ends with grease fittings also designed with grease passages to channel the grease all the way around before it squirts out between the ball and housing?

 

[johara1]

this is not an ideal situation but it is a fix to a bad one. it should have a grease groove on the ball.most people will not pay for the added cost. the grease will come out but it will migrate around the ball, as it is moved. now you can help this by greasing the machine then cycle everythine a couple times then grease again.now you grease in each ball ,if you get a dry spot it will cause heat,that will cause the grease to go to that spot. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[johara1]

one little thing,lithium grease will mix with water.then it will freeze

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

<font color="red"> one little thing,lithium grease will mix with water.then it will freeze </font>

Although I am certainly not a lubricant expert, I am afraid I have to take issue with that one as a general statement, based on my own experience, prior discussions on the board and some research. Lithium is used as a filler in a lot of different greases, both petroleum based and synthetic. Maybe there are some lithium products which aren't suited for Power Trac applications, but if you look on Amsoil's website, their racing grease, their specually formulated water resistant grease, and their spray lube all use lithium, and test extremely well not only as lubricants but for water rejection, in the harshest service.
It is rare that anything will go into solution with water without substantially lowering the freezing point of the combination. That's how antifreeze works. If grease is not miscible with water, and most greases are not, the freezing you may expect are droplets of water entrained with the grease, but not in solution. That may happen with some lithium greases more than others, but it seems a predictable syndrome with almost any grease, petroleum based or synthetic, since most will only physically mix with water, without going into solution. Although it is possible, I doubt that the presence or absence of lithium has much effect on whether or not water can be entrained as droplets.
Do you have any particular brands and references for chemistry or testing of the type(s) of lithium grease(s) that should not be used, for instance, to lube the spherical rod ends which I think probably are the culprit in the noises that Sedgewood and I have encountered?

 

[johara1]

befor i wrote that i checked with a chemical engineer, and that is does ,work with oil and grease.i myself work on heavy equip. for the past 50+ years.you can still lead a horse to waterbut................the end bye!

 

[bubenberg]

PLEASE! </font><font color="blue" class="small">( befor i wrote that i checked with a chemical engineer )</font> please, get <font color="red">another opinion </font> , this person must have gotten his degree in a paperbag!
/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
the ski industry, the lifts, the tracked vehicles, the army their vehicles and the packhorse troops on the rack clamps, are all using lithium lubricant to keep going during the winters in Switzerland. which in my youth sometimes was not possible.

we used lithium grease for our tracked vehicles in Bardoe, Norway in the NATO maneuvers in January through March,1970. that is around 180 miles north of the Nordic Circle. their summers are only three month long.