Power trac Vs ZTM

joe_fitz · Feb 1, 2005

I am debating between a purchasing power trac and a ZTM. Last year I purchased a 16 acre parcel of land. 8 acres of which is grass. This property has steep hills and over two hundred trees. If you can picture a golf cours on a hill, that's what it looks like. In addition to the 8 acres of grass to keep up with, I planted 4 acres in clover to keep the weeds from taking over the former corn field. Thism will need to be cut several times a year to keep the weeds down.

Last year I paid a local to keep up the lawn. He used a woods ZTM with a 48" deck, it took him 10 hours a week to keep up the grass. I will be taking over the upkeep this year.

I would purchase the power trac, but I am concerned over how long it would take to cut the grass, as well as cutting on the hill. I would estimate the hills to be over 25 degrees. I am only able to go to the farm two days a week.

Another factor is maintanence. I am no mechanic. The ZTM could be serviced at a dealer nearby.

On the Power Trac side, it gives me many more options than a mower.

Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Fitz.

P.S. I love the spell checker on this site!

Bob_Skurka · Feb 1, 2005

I would look at Ventrac and Steiner, both will power 72" mower decks and can easily handle slopes. Both brands are commonly found mowing golf courses, national monuments, state parks, etc. Power Trac is also excellent, if they have a 72" mower deck, then I would consider it also (I looked at them this summer but can't remember if they had a deck that size).

tracdoc · Feb 1, 2005

Fitz,

The issue that would concern me would be the hills/slopes. As you will see when you browse the PT forum, the slope issue comes up again and again. The smaller PTs are "okay" to about 20 degrees slope, providing you don't run into a rut on the downside, a big rock on the upside, etc., etc. The big dually PTs, called "slope mowers" are good to 40 and 45 degrees, respectively.

The Ventrac {HERE} and/or Steiner are reportedly more at ease on slopes. Maybe Bob_Skurka can give you some more input on that, since he got one specifically to deal with slopes on his property. For as much acreage as you have, a 72" unit would be a plus, and PT does not make mowers that big, except in their slope mower class.

Another consideraton would be the Deweze {HERE} which is pretty agile with slopes up to some 30-35 degrees.

If a 48" ZTR takes 10 hr/wk, a 72" unit should reduce that by a significant proportion. Of course, one has to also consider the agility of a ZTR which is unmatched by any CUT. So, if time is of the essence, your needs may be better served with a ZTR of 48" or greater.

Charlie_Iliff · Feb 1, 2005

Joe:
I have a Power Trac 1845 with a 72" rough-cut mower. I also pull behind a 60" Acrease wing mower, so I get a 10' wide cut for horse-pasture maintenance. I work slopes that seem steep to me and probably are in the 25 degree range, although I have not measured.
Although your contractor cut your slopes with a ZTR, pros on the board, such as Bubenberg, do not recommend ZTRs for steep stuff. I've seen them work on steep slopes, but have heard that they may take the operator downhill unexpectedly. I've done that on a conventional tractor, which is why I bought the Power Trac. I'm too old for that kind of fun.
With my PT, I have post hole augers and a post driver, large volume and 4 n 1 buckets, snow blade, lifting boom, Lackender front hoe (similar to PT mini-hoe), tiller, forks and a rake, and can change from any one to any other in a minute. (Maybe a minute and a half for the post driver, which has 5 hydraulic couplings.) If you're just cutting grass, the PT is competitive with other rigs. If you have other chores, I'll bet it against anything out there. My PT will outwork a collection of conventional tractors that we have and have had -- and you have the fun of answering the repeated question: "What the **** is that thing, anyway?"
For maintenance, I have done my own so far, with good support from Power Trac, primarily with telephone advice. Any shop with hydraulic experience can work on it easily. Hydrostatic tractors, ZTRs, and a lot of high end mowers are hydraulic, and gear tractors have hydraulic systems, so I'll bet there is a shop near your farm that can handle the PT.
(The Steiner and Ventrac are certainly worth a look. I like PT's hydraulic implements better than the Steiner/Ventrac belt rig, but I don't have experience actually operating them. I believe that PT has a wider array of options. Test drive as many things as you can -- that's more fun than working, anyway.) Plan a vacation trip to Tazewell. It's great fun, but tends to be hard on the credit cards.
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Bob_Skurka · Feb 1, 2005

If a 48" ZTR takes 10 hr/wk, a 72" unit should reduce that by a significant proportion. Of course, one has to also consider the agility of a ZTR which is unmatched by any CUT. So, if time is of the essence, your needs may be better served with a ZTR of 48" or greater. 

Here is my take on the ZTR versus PT/Ventrac/Steiner mowing speed debate. A ZTR is not faster at mowing because it has greater ground speed it is faster because it turns tighter/faster than a traditional tractor. Now if you look at the PT/Ventrac/Steiners, then you will see that they also turn tighter/faster than any traditional tractor; although not as tight as a ZTR. For mowing open areas, a ZTR has no advantage. For mowing tight spots a ZTR will have an good advantage, but not a very large one based on my mowing experience with my Ventrac. And on the slopes, the PT/Ventrac/Steiner will out cut the ZRT due to the added stability provided.

I have a neighbor with a ZTR, he wanted to race his Dixie Chopper against my Ventrac. I told him fine, the first thing we would do was the hill behind my house. He walked over to it, looked down and gave up before even bothering to enter the competition that he started.

The other downside that I found with ZTRs is that most of them with shake your kidneys into submission while rattleing the fillings out of your teeth if you don't have a yard that is glass smooth. Now if your yard is smooth and flat or rolling then a ZTR simply cannot be beat. But if it takes 10 hours to mow a hilly property then a ZTR is the wrong choice.

Overall, if I wanted an excellent mowing tractor and that was going to be the majority of my tasks, I would favor the Ventracs and Steiners. A 72" mower would be a great choice. Possibly an 8' to 10' push reel mower like they use on golf courses if the land is smooth enough to run a reel mower. Steiners and Ventracs are often fitted with a large gang reel mowers and they are very effective.

However, if I was looking for an excellent overall tractor and wanted to also use it for mowing, then I would favor a Power Trac. I don't know if a gang reel mower could be fitted, but I suspect it could be done and that would also be effective. A 72" rough cutter like Charlie has would take care of the pasture pretty nicely too. Does PT currently have a 72" finish mower?

ontheweb · Feb 1, 2005

( Does PT currently have a 72" finish mower?

)

Yes. It is on the T18 model pricesheets and is shown as a 72" finish mower. The attachment page says 3 blade rotary mowers are available up to 90" in width. That's a big beast of a mower deck. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Charlie_Iliff · Feb 1, 2005

Does PT currently have a 72" finish mower?


Yep.

pequeajim · Feb 1, 2005

Joe:

Welcome to the Power Trac group! You will find lots of great information her with some very helpful users. It's a pretty tight nit group and that goes a long way in getting your questions answered.

Bob is right, the Ventrac is a great slope mower, and with duals, is rated up to 30 degrees I think.

I had a 4000 and then a 4200 and I was very satified with the cut. The reason that I sold mine is that I wanted more FEL capability and the PT offers that. Also, the attachments are less expensive and a little more robust.

You should give us a little more information as to what your budget is. This is a big factor as when comparing a 4200 to a ZTR, the Ventrac/Steiner is much more expensive, but gives you more. Also, what size tractor are you looking for? If you want something with a 72" deck, you will be looking at a Ventrac 4200 with the 26.5 or 31 hp diesel, or the 31 hp gas.

I had both and they pushed my 60" deck around with no problems. For as much grass as you are talking about cutting, I would think that you would want as big a deck as possible.

As far a the PT on slopes, I have a 18 degree hill and a 22 degree hill. We are talking about smaller areas than you are cutting I only cut the 22 degree hill every third time and it only takes me 10 minutes (small).

In comparing the time to cut of a Ventrac 4200 31hp vs a PT 425 25hp, both with 60" decks, I would say it is about even. The PT is more maneuverable and the Ventrac with duals is a bit more stable on slopes. With the steeper hill, I used to cut it parallel, now I go up and down the slope. I also try to blend it in with other cutting, like a swipe on the hill and round the back yard off the hill. This is because I believe the Robin engine is only rated to 20 degrees for proper lubrication. Others could answer this question better than I.

The larger PTs are rated for steeper slopes. You might find that you would spend about the same for a diesel 4200 31hp with duals as you would for a PT 1845? Pretty close for just the tractors and the 1845 is a 45 HP diesel? The 1845 is much more versatile and for that much property would probably out mow the 4200.

If you are comparing my 425 to a Ventrac 4200, then you are talking about quite a difference in price, the PT being much less.

To do it over again, I would buy the PT again. I only have 18 hours on mine though, but everyone on here loves their's and they seem to be very reliable. I know they are tanks when you look at them. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Good luck with your research, ask a lot of questions, and have fun selecting your tractor!

JackIL · Feb 1, 2005

Joe,

I urge you to stop by a good hardware store or home supply store and pick up a simple Carpenter's Protractor Level for $5-7 or so. Take it along with a piece of plywood about a foot square out and measure the actual slopes you will have to mow. Place the plywood on the ground and the level on it. Then rotate the base of the level until you find the maximum slope at each location. That will help settle a lot of questions up front.

Most people are not good when it comes to estimating slopes in either degrees or percent grade. In general they tend to overestimate. Since it is so inexpensive and easy to do just go out and do the measurments. That should be your starting point before getting into the details of particular tractor configurations.

Please let us know what your measurements actually are and we can go from there.

JackIL

joe_fitz · Feb 1, 2005

You read my mind. I'll be checking the angle of the slope on Thursday. The hill accounts for about an acre, I have cut it with my rideing mower. It does involve hanging out of the seat on the uphill side. I appreatiate the info.

Thanks,

fitz