Power & Utility Questions

[forgeblast]

We run propane, dont own the tanks and dont pay a rental fee. That being said the people we buy from are the least expensive in the area and have excellent customer service. We had them hook up our propane lines after I ran them. They pressure tested them and checked ever line/fitting etc for leaks.
We have two of the snowman tanks. They hold about 100 gallons a piece, and the tanks weigh about 420lbs. I am thinking to go with a larger 500lb which is 400 gallon tank if we decide to get a lp genny, and hot water tank.

 

[dave1949]

Did you read his and my post before making your assumption. I did say to contact the electric company for advise. I retired from the eighth largest electrical distributor/provider in the nation and know the difference between a crossarm and a CLF. I served for 35 years. The advise given by all is good advise. Some may not apply to his situation and some might. It's the OP that asked here for advise to broaden his horizon.

Whoa Nellie, I guess Coobie agreed on your advice, then I said Coobie gave good advice - is that the issue? We all agree, the OP needs to contact his local utility.

Like the OP, I live in a town with only septic and plumbing inspections, my electrical install still had to meet the utility's standards and code. That was my point, and it had nothing to do with you.

 

[rambler]

Electrical: Talk to the people you will be buying electric from; they have rules, you need to follow their rules. There needs to be a slip joint for the conduit, for frost heaves. It would be unusual ($$$) to use copper wires these days for the main feed, folks use al with the proper goo and proper rated connectors to bond the al to the box or other wires. The voltage drop calculators ( Voltage Drop Calculator JavaScript ) say 2/0 al for 200 amps at 100 feet.

Water, again depends on your utility, most in the rural, like me, have a well so I have no idea.

Propane, you get free tank rental if you use enough; but nothing is free, you are then locked into one company and they can charge what they want. Many bad experiences there, it is better to own your tank. Used go about a buck a gallon, new is about 2 bucks a gallon. Installing propane is putting an explosive gas into your house, best to let a pro deal with that perhaps. Regulations got a lot tighter the past 5 years, whomever fills the tank will likely want to inspect the install either way. 1000 gal tank is best, depends where you are can get by with smaller, are you doing furnace, range, clothes drier, and water heater in a cold climate, or just a furnace in a warm climate, etc. It's really going to depend.

In town it is best to just hook on and pay the bills and let everything be taken care of. Out in the country, the more you own/ take care of yourself, the cheaper it is over the long haul. Wells, owned propane tanks, etc cost more up front, but are cheaper over the long haul and give you the most flexability.

--->Paul

 

[Gary Fowler]

I live in country and here in Bismarck we have no inspection other than perk test and sewer, BUT, the power company will not hook up to your house without checking that all the circuits are wired properly and wire is sized correctly. They do transformer to the meter hook up for free. I had my shop put on separate meter and they ran overhead line to meter at no charge (up to 150 feet from the transformer). I didnt want above ground to my house and they would do that also for $8.50 per foot total which included digging trench, furnishing cable and hookup or if I put in the trench with 2" conduit with pull string, they would put the wire in for $2.50 per foot. I got the house contractor to dig the ditch and install the conduit which cost me nothing extra and power company then tied it all in when house was completed. We ran off temp. pole above ground till house was built and meter box installed. I think they wanted it 4 foot above grade at the pole and they took over from there.
Check with your power company, they will come out and do a survey for you and give you their prices including placing poles for above ground runs if needed.

As for water, the water company will tie in to the main line and put in your meter for you. You may have a choice in linear location but they will come straight off the main line a few feet and put in the meter, the rest is up to you including putting in an anti-siphon valve in the system and pressure reducer at your house if required. Our service is 100 psi at the meter and there has to be a pressure regulator just prior to building entry.

Propane service is available from any local propane dealer and I dont think owning your tank or renting will cost your anything. If your are getting hosed, you can alway switch companies even if you have a rented tank. If you are far into the country, you may not have a choice on agents used and have to use one that will deliver to your area. I dont use propane but did check on it when thinking of installing a generator. They would lease me a tank first year free and then so much per month after that and they would hook up the line from the tank to the generator for free, I just had to pay for the copper tubing and put in the conduit to get the line under any concrete pads.

 

[1fastbob]

Here is my electrical installation...

 

[EddieWalker]

Contact your local provider for each utility. Contact your local inspectors. They will tell you exactly what you need and save you a lot of worry. Anybody else is basically guessing on your needs.

This is exactly right. It varies so much from Utility Company to Utility Company that there is no way to say what you have to do, or what is even available for you to have. In my county, there are several different Electrical Utility Companies. They have their own boundry as to where each will go, so just figuring out which one you are on is the first challenge. Each one has different rules, so that's all that matters is what they say.

I'm not a fan of green energy, but I'm not against it either. There is more feel good in it then actual savings, but it is getting better and their are a few things that might be worth looking into. It really depends on your local government and what they will give you to make it worthwhile. If it's all out of pocket without any government handouts, the math rarely adds up.

Better to make the house as tight and efficient as possible then to spend a fortune trying to save a few bucks. Especially when the lifespan of what you buy might not be what it's advertised to be.

Eddie

 

[Gator6x4]

Here is my electrical installation...

Interesting meter placement. All locations I have ever lived have required a sealed meter be attached to the residence or outbuilding. They have also required locks on all electrical service boxes to prevent someone from exploring and either disconnecting the electrical service or being seriously injured and to limit service provider and customer liability.

 

[1fastbob]

Interesting meter placement. All locations I have ever lived have required a sealed meter be attached to the residence or outbuilding. They have also required locks on all electrical service boxes to prevent someone from exploring and either disconnecting the electrical service or being seriously injured and to limit service provider and customer liability.

Where I live out in the county (Pratt County) meters don't go on houses they go on the pole. In town they go on the house. Meter is sealed, but I have in the past cut of the seal to remove the meter so I could complete the installation. Power company just installs new seal. If some idiot wants to come out here and explore the insides of my electrical boxes....be my guest.

 

[Bird]

When I lived down in Navarro County, the Navarro County Electric Coop office would give you a one page illustrated directions for what you had to do before they'd hook up power; pole size, length, depth in the ground, type of conduit and wire, weather head, masterbreaker below the meter base that they would give you. When you had all that done and their guy came and inspected it, they'd schedule a time to hook up the power. And below that master breaker panel, you could do anything you wanted to do; no ohter inspections or rules.:laughing:

 

[Dr Dave]

First off, what are your future plans, shop, barn, other out buildings, plan ahead, it is cheaper.

Then contact your power company, ask if they have rebates an discounts for an all electric home. Our REC will give rebates on heating/cooling equiptment, and 80 gallon Marathon hot water heater for $100 dollars, they list for over $900. They have a switch control box that can be installed, it can turn off waterheater and HVAC system for 15min during peak loads, for this feature all power that is controled is on a seperate meter at about half the normal rate!
The rebates I got covered 90% of HVAC eguiptment cost, I beleave the Government offers some rebates also?

As for propane, I have used it, 1000 gal tank is a must, prices follow gas prices, I paid $.85, 20 years ago and $2.50 a gal a few years ago, each company has diferent rates. if you lease there tank $60 dollar a year,you must buy from them. The tanks can hold only 80 %, It sucks to come up with the cash to purchase 800 gal at a time, they offer discounts for cash vers credit. So if you have not bought HVAC and water heater yet, I would recomend electric heat pump. I live on a hill with a steep drive, ever see a propane truck do a wheelie and come to rest on the back bump, the drivers wife was with him, she asked to use the bathroom.

Dave