power vs. $ vs. brand

[sodbuster3]

Hi Everyone

I've lurked here for a long time but signed in as I hope to get some info from the wide experience and knowledge that is obviously here.

Situation: southern Ontario, Niagara pennisula, fruit and nut trees, grape vines and an expanding vegetable garden.

Need to:
1) Mow and bag say 5 acres including around trees and some vines on gentle slopes and flat areas.
2) till the fairly tough soil for the garden areas each Spring.
3) a shallow till near the vines and some trees from time to time.
4) possible light use of a rear blade.

Apparent choices;
1) Kubota BX1850, or maybe BX2350 for about $2000 more.
2) 1 year off rental NH TZ25 with 200 hours but with warranty for about the same price as the BX2350.
3) Other suggestons. Also, there are used BX15s and TC30s around.

Both of those dealers appear to be decent people although the Kubota dealer (Berg in Wainfleet) is larger and seems more established.

JD dealers are definitely further away. There is a Kioti dealer not far away but I am not familiar with their machines. CaseIH dealer is closest of all but I get a bad vibe from them. My mind remains open.

Questions:
1) Would the difference in horsepower be that noticeable?
1b) Any meaningful difference in fuel efficiency?
2) Talk seems to be is that Kubota breaks down less often especially when compared to NH. True?
3) Is NH's Sensitrak a significant advantage?
4) Doss anyone have any experience with the dealers in the area?
5) Any other relevant issue not mentioned here.

ANY comment (even a bad joke) is appreciated ! thanks in advance!

 

[mjarrels]

I can't imagin mowing and bagging 5 acres using a BX size tractor! I would at least move up to a B7800 size or B3030.

mark

 

[john_bud]

Sod,

welcome to TBN and congrats on your first post.

The Kubota machines would be good. As long as you have at least a 60" deck, 5 acres is no problem. Expect to use about 1 gal of fuel an hour worst case. Probably will be closer to 1/2 - 2/3 gal an hour in reality. That's for about any 20-30 hp machine cutting with a 60" deck. Diesels are pretty linear that way, fuel goes by the job being done ffor the most part.

I don't think that any of the listed machines will be failure prone. It will matter what you like the best, what seems to have intuitive controls for you and which has the more supportive dealer.

 

[jcaledon]

Sodbuster3,

I was in the same position, although I have less to mow then you do. My fruit trees were a big concern because the rops presented a problem. Have you considered the new Kubota B2320? I am also in Southern Ontario, and recently got a quote for $16,000 (they probably would have come down further) which included the 60" drive over deck, loader, grill guard, ballast box, and loaded rear tires. Stepping up to the B, for about $2,200 more than the BX2350 gives you a bigger, stronger tractor, folding rops, three speed hydro etc. I ended up getting the B2620 to get some extra power as I have some steep hills to mow, but the B2320 should be good for your situation.

I looked really hard at the BX, and if I could have gotten a folding rops, would have gone with the BX2350, and saved myself some money. The uncut turning radius is actually tighter on the B than it is on the BX. For me it made sense to step up to a bigger tractor. I don't plan on ever buying another. And Kubota has recently lowered their pricing in Canada because of the dollar, so that we are essentially getting the US pricing.

Good luck with your search.

 

[DGS]

Hello and Welcome to TBN
I live in your area also and have general idea of where you are
As far as equipment goes I think test drives are thr best way to find out what your needs are
Do this at your location if at all possible,it wiil give you an idea what the different machines will do on your ground
As far as dealers go I deal with Berg's and find them good people to deal with
(3 machines at different times so far)
If the Case-IH dealer is in Binbrook I would pass as they do not to seem to be interested IMO
Do not know about JD since Greenline went out of business 2 years ago
Good luck in your hunt
DGS

 

[sodbuster3]

Thanks so far guys!

Jcaledon,
I followed your recent thread with interest. Most of the same issues are relevant.
Maneuverability, i.e. turning circle is definitely an issue. I am surprised that the B2320 and those larger tires could turn as well but the specs do say 2.1 metres as opposed to 2.2 for the BX1850, so it could warrant at least a test drive after looking at what the dealer might offer on price. Definitely the pricing of Kubotas in Canada is good right now.

 

[toddler]

I'd go check out the Kioti CK25 HST with a MMM.

With its much bigger wheels, I think it will be more comfortable to ride on when mowing that many acres. And, I think it'll till more than the BX size too.

BUT, it's a lot heavier. Are you looking for 5 perfectly groomed acres of grass? Also, is it wet and soft, because if it is, then Kubota makes lighter weight tractors. I think the BX will be uncomfortable to ride on for that long, but a used B series might be ideal if the price of a new one is too high.

Todd

 

[Wesdor]

Not sure what price range you are expecting to pay, but have you considered two machines? One to do the tilling and other tractor work. The second would be a ZTR. Cub Cadet has a rather nice Commercial Grade that I saw at the local Farm and Fleet for about $5,000.

I believe they are rated for about 2 - 2 1/2 acres per hour. I tried an exmark last fall and was amazed at how much time a ZTR saves. If my research is correct, the Cub Cadet is the best price of the heavy duty ZTR's. Perhaps someone else can recommend and even better buy on a different brand.

Sorry if this takes the thread in a direction you aren't ready to head.

 

[sodbuster3]

Todd,

Definitely not looking for perfect grass, just need to keep things under control and use the clippings for compost. By mid May at the latest, the surface is quite solid and dry except near the streams and there won't be any mowing there. I don't know much about Kioti or their pricing but the CK25HST definitely seems to be a step up in size/power from the BXs. It won't hurt to at least see what they are offering.

Wesdor,

Interesting idea and a ZTR would be great moving around the trees but I built a small garage last year to hold just one machine, so it's one for now.

 

[daveinnh]

If you intend to chew up the vine and tree branches from trimming operations, you may wish to evaluate a good quality flair mower, then review the HP needed / width needed.

Having worked on a family operated vineyard operation (Lewiston, NY), you may wish to look at loader / fork capacity too - i.e. lifting fruit boxes onto flatbed trailers.

It sounds like a big compact / small utility tractor may be needed.

 

[kozak]

Hi Everyone

I've lurked here for a long time but signed in as I hope to get some info from the wide experience and knowledge that is obviously here.

Situation: southern Ontario, Niagara pennisula, fruit and nut trees, grape vines and an expanding vegetable garden.

Need to:
1) Mow and bag say 5 acres including around trees and some vines on gentle slopes and flat areas.
2) till the fairly tough soil for the garden areas each Spring.
3) a shallow till near the vines and some trees from time to time.
4) possible light use of a rear blade.

Apparent choices;
1) Kubota BX1850, or maybe BX2350 for about $2000 more.

The BX series IMO would be too small. 5 acres is alot of cutting. Need a min 60" cut or you'll be out there all day.

2) 1 year off rental NH TZ25 with 200 hours but with warranty for about the same price as the BX2350.

Again, although capable enough the TZ series is sub-compact & too small IMO. If these sub-compacts came in larger wheel sizes might be worth considering.

3) Other suggestons. Also, there are used BX15s and TC30s around.

TC30 is a nice Utility tractor. However, having no experience with what is required for Maintenance around grape vines, not sure if you will be doing alot of close quarters work and/or alot of forward & reverse maneuvers. If so, you can't beat a hydrostat for this type of work. With a gear tractor, you will continually be clutching & shifting. Obviously the BX15 is out of the running.

Both of those dealers appear to be decent people although the Kubota dealer (Berg in Wainfleet) is larger and seems more established.

Dealer is one of the most important considerations. I ended up going Blue due to the bad vibe I got with the Kubota Dealership in my area.

JD dealers are definitely further away. There is a Kioti dealer not far away but I am not familiar with their machines. CaseIH dealer is closest of all but I get a bad vibe from them. My mind remains open.

I would believe all of these makes would be a good choice.

Questions:
1) Would the difference in horsepower be that noticeable?

Not with 3 to 5 HP. However, with 7 to 10 HP it would be as you are normally going up a Tractor Class size so getting larger, heavier Tractor with more lifting capabilities, etc.

1b) Any meaningful difference in fuel efficiency?

A SCUT will obviously have less fuel consumption than a CUT mainly due to weight. But even CUT's have incredibley low fuel consumption. Your savings in time for cutting 5 acres with a CUT would outweigh the savings in fuel using a SCUT. (My .02)

2) Talk seems to be is that Kubota breaks down less often especially when compared to NH. True?

I have never heard of that although it may have been mentioned in Kubota forum from time to time. I have heard through word of mouth only that Kubota's do have a great reliability track record. On the other hand, I have had zero mechanical difficulties with my NH. A few minor electrical problems (fuse & glow plug relay) that was diagnosed on the NH forum that I was able to fix myself. I don't think you can go wrong with either make.

3) Is NH's Sensitrak a significant advantage?

Yes depending upon the task you will be doing. The Sensitrak feature gives you automatic engagement / disengagement of 4 WD. I have never put my Tractor in MFWD as I have never got stuck. But the nicer feature of the Sensitrak is the incredible 75 degree turning radius (compared to 54 degrees without Supersteer.) Again, if you will be working in tight corners, this feature will allow you to get a larger more capable tractor & be able to maneuver like a smaller tractor. Expensive option to be sure but what an incredible tight turning radius. Must be experienced to be appreciated.

4) Does anyone have any experience with the dealers in the area? Sorry

5) Any other relevant issue not mentioned here.

I am obviously pre-disposed towards Blue. However, I do believe that NH tractors are hard to beat from an ergonomics standpoint. The Operator platform is normally larger & more spacious making it easier to get on & off. Also the sloped hood on the NH makes the forward visibilty second to none on the market. Kubota & JD are slowly catching up but for most of their models their slope is almost non-existent.
Switching from low range to high range on the NH can be done by a flip of a switch. The lighting package is also better giving both side & forward lighting.

ANY comment (even a bad joke) is appreciated ! thanks in advance!

Not sure if you will be using this tractor for snow removal. We sure did get alot of it this winter. Going with a tractor with larger wheels & having more weight will go a long way from getting STUCK !! You have mentioned a rear blade. Of course you should also consider a FEL. I know you probably don't want to cut grass with a FEL on. However, they are fairly easy to remove & once you have done it a few times it becomes easy.

As someone else mentioned, the B2620 would be a nice size to get. (Not too big, not too small). Comparatively, the NH TC26DA would also be nice.


Good Luck & Have Fun Hunting.


Vic

 

[daTeacha]

I am not too familiar with the machines you have mentioned, but I noticed no mention of the transmission or the brake system.

With a manual transmission and the proper tractor, you can use the individual rear brakes to turn very sharply in 2 wheel drive. By locking a brake, you can pivot on one rear wheel. I don't know if this is important to you or not, but it's basically not something most hst machines will allow easily.

Are you going to be mowing under the branches of the orchard, or just between the rows? Have you considered an offset trail mower for the areas under the trees?

 

[Egon]

I'd go with a kubota B7800 or the equivalent in John Deere.

Of course a ford 8N should satisfy all your need at a much lower cost and perhaps outlast the other mentioned tractors.

 

[sodbuster3]

Ok, the weight of opinion here has convinced me to give the larger wheeled units such as the B2320 and other brand equivalents a closer look. Budget is an issue but we'll see what comes up. Otherwise, something smaller will have to do. Has to be hydrostatic transmission one way or another.

thanks to all!

 

[Barneyhunts]

Sodbuster,

 

[Barneyhunts]

Sodbuster,
I own a B7800 and a BX2200. We mow about 3 acres of lawn with the BX with a 60" mmm. Takes about 2 hours with some manuvering around garden , fruit trees, flower beds, etc. The BX with mower is suprisingly manuverable!My wife does most of the mowing and thinks the BX is more comfortable than the B7800 (has R1 / ag tires). We have a Woods tiller for the BX and it works well, except, where there are lots of rocks. The BX also handles snow removal with a front mounted snowblower or front mounted plow. It is a great work horse.
I use the B7800 for brush cuttting, plowing, discing, planting , etc, and the FEL for moving things around. It is also a great working machine. Good luck in your search.