"Powersafe" clutch on BCS

farmerboybill · Mar 13, 2013

Hi Garden Organix,

I'm sorry you feel this is a "silly" conversation. I feel it's been a good, respectful discussion on some fundamental differences concerning the direction BCS America has gone with the BCS machines. This entire conversation has been about the fact that the powersafe has been foisted on the US market only because it was built to meet EU safety standards - NOT because it's a better option versus the cone clutch. It has been priced artificially low to get it here, along with raising the price of the 853. The 853 is about the best machine you can buy in terms of versatility and simplicity (I state that as a Grillo dealer). You say the 739 is the same price as the 732. Do you think maybe the 732 is priced too high for its features, while the 739 is priced artificially low to get it to customers? Are you assuming there won't be a price increase after the 732 is ended? The 739 really has me scratching my head. Why go through the cost of adding drum brakes on each wheel, but then make them ONLY a parking brake?

As I stated earlier in this thread - I do not accept the assumption that change is always an upgrade. Sometimes change is only needlessly complicating (thus ruining) a good thing.

John,
I'll just quietly chuckle at the phrase "unbiased dealer"...

walkbehindtractorman · Mar 13, 2013

Hi all,

I agree with John at BCSShop, there is no substitute for actually operating a machine at a dealership, if you have one nearby who stocks product (and has a demo machine to let you use). These are all great machines in general, even if the finer technical points of older style vs. newer style are debatable.

However, I feel I have to respond to the "unbiased dealer" comment from BCSShop (with its implication that we are biased)...:I think that an "independent" dealer would be a much better description of us, since we: A. are not "wedded" to one walk-behind tractor brand (we carry two); and B. We do not blindly accept BCS's "company line" that newer is always necessarily better, until proven in the field.
BCS has invested a LOT of money in this new clutch design, and they are understandably trying hard to sell it. While I would like to say that I have complete faith in BCS's engineers, I know better than that...While BCS has produced a lot of excellent equipment, they have also made their share of engineering blunders over the 35 years my family has dealt with them (many of which have NOT been foisted on the U.S. market). Time will be the true test of this new system....
Best regards and happy gardens,
Joel, Earth Tools

GardenOrganix · Mar 13, 2013

FarmerBoyBill, the 732 hasn't increased in price at all in the two years that I've been contemplating a purchase. As far as I know, the 739 is new for this year, and the same price as 732. As I said earlier, BCS America told me that the manufacturer invested lots of money to make the PowerSafe clutches more efficiently, therefore reducing the cost of the PowerSafe machines.

I'm not sure why you make it seem BCS America is going in the wrong direction by introducing a PowerSafe option. To me, it seems like a logical move, especially if they're the same price of standard machines. It only offers more options for people (not a bad thing). When I called I received no indication that the standard models were going away anytime soon. Maybe you have a problem with it because you sell Grillo, not BCS.

I don't like these backhanded "apologies" from you and WalkBehindTractorMan. It's pretty unprofessional to have dealers argue about sales on a public forum, no matter how you slice it. I don't think the PowerSafe conversation is silly, I think the sales argument is silly. Justify it however you want. Then again, maybe I'M the one who's old-fashioned here. :confused3:

farmerboybill · Mar 13, 2013

I'm sorry you feel that way. I genuinely am. We'll have to agree to disagree.

BCSSHOP · Mar 13, 2013

Thank you GardenOrganix for your assessment of the recent conversations. I would have said the same but I try very hard not put out miss-information, attack dealers integrity or say bad things about a competitors machines. You or any reader is welcome to take me to task if you feel anyone from our business in unprofessional.

walkbehindtractorman · Mar 13, 2013

Again, I apologize to GardenOrganix if he (or she) does not like the tone of what I thought was a relatively good-natured debate. I am just sharing our experience and concerns about "new" designs on the products we represent.
We did not get to be the largest walk-behind tractor retailer in North America by failing to demand high quality and good designs from the manufacturers we deal with...in fact, we push them to provide better products all the time. I travel to Italy (where all these machines are built) with some regularity and meet with the manufacturers' engineers. In November 2010, I stood in the BCS factory in Italy, and watched PowerSafe clutches being put together on an assembly line. I had questions and concerns THEN about this new feature, and I still have questions. Only "time in the field" (here in the USA) will provide the answers.

I have noticed that in electronic communication (e-mails and online forums included), it is sometimes difficult to convey things accurately, and things can misconstrued easily by the reader simply being in a different "frame of mind" than the writer. I have seen relationships badly damaged by simple misunderstandings in e-mail communication. (This is why we never published an e-mail address on our website...I don't like this type of communication.)
Happy Spring,
Joel, Earth Tools

maverick65 · Apr 3, 2013

Jens767 said:
Hi again

I fully agree, that when working with a potentially dangerous 2-wheel tractor, for sure safety shall be our top priority. I feel confident though, that the members of this great forum are all fully aware of that.

The loss of the transport gear on the new BCS models seems to a frequent topic in this forum, so I decided to take my little test to the next level. As you can see on the pictures below, it all worked out fine :thumbsup:

On my BCS 740 I changed the gear quadrant and the joint to a BCS 853-type (p/n 561.57239 and p/n 552. 47644). As long as BCS does not remove the worm transport gear all together but just blocks it, this gives you the 4th transport gear almost for free.

In order not to compromise safety, I also highly recommend you to change the joint to a BCS 853-type, if you change the quadrant! As seen on my photos, this will prevent you from accidentally selecting the transport gear when in the front-PTO (mowing) mode (left picture), as the joint and the welded tap seen on the far left, only allows the 4th gear to be selected when in the rear-PTO (tiller) mode (right picture), and will block it when in the front-PTO mode.

In order to secure the joint to the gear lever, you will also need the pin (p/n 342.13022). As the gear quadrant comes without any placards, you might also want the decal (p/n 580.57704) too, in order to find the proper gear.

Please do not forget, that because the worm transport gear bypasses the normal gearbox, it will always drive backwards when in the front-PTO mode, disregarding the position of the reverse lever!!!

View attachment 306458 View attachment 306459

Best regards

Jens

Hi!

This "hack" will work on BCS 750 (with Honda GX390 engine)?
Thanks.

Jens767 · Apr 4, 2013

Hi Maverick

I have no hands-on experience with the BCS 750 myself, but according the homepage from Earth Tools, it "uses the same transmission housing and internal gearing as the BCS 740", so I guess it will work.

If you have a BCS 750 at hand, you can easily make a little test yourself, to see if it works: remove the gear quadrant, as it blocks all but the normal 3 gears. If you can now move the gear lever beyond the 3th gear, you have found your transport gear :thumbsup:

Now you only need to order a BCS 853-type gear quadrant, and you are up and running. For your own safety, please change the joint to a BCS 853-type also, as this will prevent you from accidently selecting the transport gear when in the front-PTO mode!

Best regards

Jens

maverick65 · Apr 4, 2013

Jens767 said:
"uses the same transmission housing and internal gearing as the BCS 740"

Hi!

I don't have any BCS at my hand (just in my dreams...for now) but on BCS website I see different speeds:
http://www.bcsagri.it/index.php?id=167&L=1&tx_bcs_pi1[showUid]=200&cHash=369fcd9c5a
and
http://www.bcsagri.it/index.php?id=167&L=1&tx_bcs_pi1[showUid]=185&cHash=a439fb7bf2

Any chance?

Thanks.

P.S. I'm not so good in mechanic.

farmerboybill · Apr 4, 2013

I don't know much about the 740 and 750, but I do know the 750 has gear reduction at the wheels. That would account for the different ground speeds on the same tranmission. Different sized tires will also change ground speed on the same transmission.