Pre 50 Hour Service Benefit
- Thread starter keving
- Start date
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zeuspaul
Silver Member
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2006
- Messages
- 214
- Location
- North of Escondido, San Diego
- Tractor
- Kubota L4330****RTV 900
Synthetic oil is engineered oil using dino. The molecules are specifically *designed*. A dino oil may have a large variety of molecules. Synthetic oil selects *the best* molecules and or creates them from the dino's.
A good synthetic will have better lubricating qualities and can be designed to work better with additives. Naturally the synthetic oil is only as good as the designer.
Bottom line is better lubrication and better additives or a better relationship with the additives. Better lubrication means less friction hense less heat and more horsepower and longer engine life due to less friction/wear and better additives.
Chose your synthetic wisely as they are not all the same.
Zeuspaul
A good synthetic will have better lubricating qualities and can be designed to work better with additives. Naturally the synthetic oil is only as good as the designer.
Bottom line is better lubrication and better additives or a better relationship with the additives. Better lubrication means less friction hense less heat and more horsepower and longer engine life due to less friction/wear and better additives.
Chose your synthetic wisely as they are not all the same.
Zeuspaul
I agree, Amsoil is the only oil purveyor that I know of that lists the studies of its product performance such as the 4 ball wear scar test. Synthetic oil can withstand the pressure exerted upon it thru film strength that can be stretched further and still remain effective in protecting the parts, it resists oxidized breakdown from heat and remains molecularly stable when the pressure is on. I cant think of any reason not to use syn, My cost recoop is having my tractor last a long time hopefully without major mechanical failure brought on by inferior lubrication. Most cars run temp wise around 210 I believe, I have read a study that hard working tractors and heavy equipment can produce temps around 300 degrees under the hood when out in the hot sun on an open job site, thats when you need a lube that will sustain.
Theowegian
Gold Member
Garrabo: Well stated.
I guess I was thinking about a CUT owner who follows the owners manual carefully AND puts on only 50 hrs/year. What are the benefits to him? Let's define benefit in two ways.
Cost benefit (saving me money) and
Protection benefit (longer engine life thru reduced wear)
For fleet vehicles (over the road truckers, for example) synthetic oil offers significant savings thru improved fuel economy and longer engine life. Let's call this a cost AND protection benefit.
In the world of tractors, it might be a little different than autos or truckers.
My Kubota manual recommends an oil drain interval of 100 hrs or yearly. If you followed the owner's manual religiously, then it doesn't make sense to go synthetic and drain it out if you have used it for only 50 hrs at the end of one year. But if you run the tractor hard and put a lot of hours on it yearly, then it begins to make more common sense...at least to me. Hence, a protection benefit to the tractor but little if any cost benefit to me the owner.
So how can a CUT owner cost justify synthetic oil? Synthetics are so good that one benefit is to extend the drain interval - at least twice or even several times over the regular interval.
You made an excellent point though, that the superior protection of sliding parts is reason enough to go synthetics and I could understand why users do change to synthetic, me included.
But a low hour CUT owner should not really state that it offers COST benefits, because they just are not there. Protection benefit- yes; but cost benefit-no.
Thanks for the good post everyone - this was an interesting one!
I guess I was thinking about a CUT owner who follows the owners manual carefully AND puts on only 50 hrs/year. What are the benefits to him? Let's define benefit in two ways.
Cost benefit (saving me money) and
Protection benefit (longer engine life thru reduced wear)
For fleet vehicles (over the road truckers, for example) synthetic oil offers significant savings thru improved fuel economy and longer engine life. Let's call this a cost AND protection benefit.
In the world of tractors, it might be a little different than autos or truckers.
My Kubota manual recommends an oil drain interval of 100 hrs or yearly. If you followed the owner's manual religiously, then it doesn't make sense to go synthetic and drain it out if you have used it for only 50 hrs at the end of one year. But if you run the tractor hard and put a lot of hours on it yearly, then it begins to make more common sense...at least to me. Hence, a protection benefit to the tractor but little if any cost benefit to me the owner.
So how can a CUT owner cost justify synthetic oil? Synthetics are so good that one benefit is to extend the drain interval - at least twice or even several times over the regular interval.
You made an excellent point though, that the superior protection of sliding parts is reason enough to go synthetics and I could understand why users do change to synthetic, me included.
But a low hour CUT owner should not really state that it offers COST benefits, because they just are not there. Protection benefit- yes; but cost benefit-no.
Thanks for the good post everyone - this was an interesting one!
PineRidge
Super Member
So how can a CUT owner cost justify synthetic oil?
A lot of guys here have big investments $$$$$$ in their tractors, I'm one of those guys. I'm also betting that some of these same guys really don't absolutely need a tractor or at least maybe not as big HP wise as the one they currently own, it was a personal choice to purchase one and I admire that.
My point is this, it's hard to turn to any TBN member who has a large investment made in his equipment and ask him to justify the extra cost of using synthetic oil vs. regular oil.
I use synthetic oil like a lot of other guys here and I change it at the recommended NH maintenance intervals. And I don't add hours to oil changes just because I use a synthetic. Who knows, maybe my engine will last a few more years because of the extra protection that the synthetic has provided it and then again maybe not, there are no guarantees in real life.
I don't know if I really need the synthetic and quite frankly I could care less because another member chooses to use regular oil, that's his personal choice. My choice was to use synthetic and I don't make excuses or need to justify my actions because I do.
Thanks for listening to my rant, I'll get down off the soap box now......
A lot of guys here have big investments $$$$$$ in their tractors, I'm one of those guys. I'm also betting that some of these same guys really don't absolutely need a tractor or at least maybe not as big HP wise as the one they currently own, it was a personal choice to purchase one and I admire that.
My point is this, it's hard to turn to any TBN member who has a large investment made in his equipment and ask him to justify the extra cost of using synthetic oil vs. regular oil.
I use synthetic oil like a lot of other guys here and I change it at the recommended NH maintenance intervals. And I don't add hours to oil changes just because I use a synthetic. Who knows, maybe my engine will last a few more years because of the extra protection that the synthetic has provided it and then again maybe not, there are no guarantees in real life.
I don't know if I really need the synthetic and quite frankly I could care less because another member chooses to use regular oil, that's his personal choice. My choice was to use synthetic and I don't make excuses or need to justify my actions because I do.
Thanks for listening to my rant, I'll get down off the soap box now......
Theowegian
Gold Member
Hello PineRidge.
I always enjoy reading your postings, and make an effort to read them carefully because you have good ideas and are a faithful poster here at TBN.
But Im sorry that I struck a chord with you. It was not my intent, however, I dont think you read my posts at all. I think you got stuck on the english word "justify". According to Dictionary.com, I was using this meaning:
"To demonstrate or prove to be just, right, or valid".
I meant justify as a valid reason to do something. However, YOU implied that justify is the same thing as making excuses.
If you HAD read my post, I offered NO excuses but provided valid reasons to switch from dino oils to synthetic oils. I went on to explain how someone COULD be provided valid reasons to use synthetics, ME included.
Again, syn oils are good if a tractor owner wants to extend the drain interval. Another valid reason to use syn oil is because the tractor is being worked very hard in extreme conditions, even for short periods of time. (another poster pointed out that +300F under the hood is possible on hot days). And the best valid reason is because syn oils have superior lubricating properties -especially cold starting.
Therefore, there are several ways we can have valid reasons for using synthetic lubricants.
Thanks for sharing your personal reason, too. If I understood you correctly, you said TBN'ers with big investment $$$$ in their tractors maybe want the very best for their investment? Well, my tractor is NOT an investment. It is an expense. I use it as a tool and a toy and I take a lot of effort to take care of it (yeah I wax it), but it is NOT an investment. I have stocks and savings accounts for investments. It is very unlikely my tractor will be worth more when Im done using it than when I bought it. I think what YOU meant is that your tractor is a way to improve your property or acreage, which IS an investment. Therefore, a property is an investment but a tractor is NOT.
obtw, you are confusing making excuses for using synthetic oil vs having good reasons to use synthetic oil.
I always enjoy reading your postings, and make an effort to read them carefully because you have good ideas and are a faithful poster here at TBN.
But Im sorry that I struck a chord with you. It was not my intent, however, I dont think you read my posts at all. I think you got stuck on the english word "justify". According to Dictionary.com, I was using this meaning:
"To demonstrate or prove to be just, right, or valid".
I meant justify as a valid reason to do something. However, YOU implied that justify is the same thing as making excuses.
If you HAD read my post, I offered NO excuses but provided valid reasons to switch from dino oils to synthetic oils. I went on to explain how someone COULD be provided valid reasons to use synthetics, ME included.
Again, syn oils are good if a tractor owner wants to extend the drain interval. Another valid reason to use syn oil is because the tractor is being worked very hard in extreme conditions, even for short periods of time. (another poster pointed out that +300F under the hood is possible on hot days). And the best valid reason is because syn oils have superior lubricating properties -especially cold starting.
Therefore, there are several ways we can have valid reasons for using synthetic lubricants.
Thanks for sharing your personal reason, too. If I understood you correctly, you said TBN'ers with big investment $$$$ in their tractors maybe want the very best for their investment? Well, my tractor is NOT an investment. It is an expense. I use it as a tool and a toy and I take a lot of effort to take care of it (yeah I wax it), but it is NOT an investment. I have stocks and savings accounts for investments. It is very unlikely my tractor will be worth more when Im done using it than when I bought it. I think what YOU meant is that your tractor is a way to improve your property or acreage, which IS an investment. Therefore, a property is an investment but a tractor is NOT.
obtw, you are confusing making excuses for using synthetic oil vs having good reasons to use synthetic oil.
PineRidge
Super Member
Theowegian forgive me if I sounded a bit hard. I apologize, it must have been a bad evening for me, maybe I should have bit my lip instead of making that post.
Bob I have always used Rotella synthetic. I'll bet that opens a can of worms for a few Dino fans.
Bob I have always used Rotella synthetic. I'll bet that opens a can of worms for a few Dino fans.
PineRidge said:Theowegian forgive me if I sounded a bit hard. I apologize, it must have been a bad evening for me, maybe I should have bit my lip instead of making that post.
Bob I have always used Rotella synthetic. I'll bet that opens a can of worms for a few Dino fans.
Nope, you did not sound hard at all. I did not mean to imply you were being hard. No need to apologize.
So, you like rotella synthetic! Cool. what other choices are there?
Bob
JerryG
Super Member
For some engines it is ok to change to synthetic oil very early. For some engines it is not. The type and pattern of cross hatch that is machined in the cylinders as well as the type of rings has a lot to do with whether synthetic oil should be used before the break in period is over. If a real smooth crosshatch is used and / or if a hard-faced ring set is used then the break in period will be much longer. If synthetic oil is used before the rings are seated in an engine like above, the rings may never seat. If you don't know for sure how the cylinders were machined and the type of rings used, it is a very poor idea to change to synthetic before break in take place. The car manufactures that currently use synthetic oil as a factory fill take these things into consideration when the rings are selected and when the cylinders are machined.MikePA said:This is an 'old wive's tale'. Synthetic oil can be`used from the first oil change.
For some of us, that'd be 3 - 5 years!