Preparing site for new house on slab

   / Preparing site for new house on slab
  • Thread Starter
#21  
Have you worked out how you will insulate the above grade portion of the frost wall and/or slab?
Dave.

I'm still studying that. The slab seems easy enough; Dow is now selling a two-inch thick high-density polystyrene sheet intended to be placed under slabs.

I've seen a few different techniques for the footings. One just stood high-density polystyrene on edge inside the footing. I'm having trouble picturing how the junction between the slab and footing is handled if you do that. Seems like that would be a large heat loss area unless the styrofoam actually separated the slab and footing at the finished floor.

The other scheme used polyisocyanurate insulation on the outside surface of the footing, covered with a stucco-like covering (Dryvit?) where it was above grade. Seems like a lot of work, and a potential maintenance headache.

We have a HVAC contractor who does a lot of radiant floors, geothermal, etc., and I planned on having him involved when it's time to make those decisions.
 
   / Preparing site for new house on slab #22  
I looked into doing an insulated monolithic slab at one point a few years ago. If I recall, they're not fully embraced here in the US. But at the time and this was only a few years ago, that seemed to be changing. Monoslabs seem to be much more common in Europe and in particular Scandinavia. There's certainly lots of infomation about them on the web.

The considerations I had in favor was cost. In my case I think it was about 70% of the cost of a poured foundation.

Considerations against was getting a contractor who knew how to do it, the fact that I wouldn't have a basement and potential problems if I ever decided to add on to the structure.

The monoslabs I was looking at didn't have a footing per-se but rather wings. That is to say the virtical edge of the slab didn't extend to below the frostline.

Frost-Protected Shallow Foundation Monolithic Slab with Horizontal Wing Insulation for Colder Climates

Good luck.
 
   / Preparing site for new house on slab #23  
I'm still studying that. The slab seems easy enough; Dow is now selling a two-inch thick high-density polystyrene sheet intended to be placed under slabs.

I've seen a few different techniques for the footings. One just stood high-density polystyrene on edge inside the footing. I'm having trouble picturing how the junction between the slab and footing is handled if you do that. Seems like that would be a large heat loss area unless the styrofoam actually separated the slab and footing at the finished floor.

The other scheme used polyisocyanurate insulation on the outside surface of the footing, covered with a stucco-like covering (Dryvit?) where it was above grade. Seems like a lot of work, and a potential maintenance headache.

We have a HVAC contractor who does a lot of radiant floors, geothermal, etc., and I planned on having him involved when it's time to make those decisions.

There are two low-tech (and cost) methods I know of. Both assume the insulation board is on the outside of the frostwall/slab.

One is to offset your bottom sill plate over the outside edge of the slab or frostwall. The offset amount will be the thickness of the extruded poly board minus the thickness of your exterior sheathing. In other words, when it is all done, the outer surface of the insulation board is flush with the outer surface of the exterior sheathing. Your exterior finish can then lap over this butt joint.

You put aluminum trim coil on before your exterior siding, it can be nailed to the exterior sheathing and glued to the insulation board. There are specially formulated glues that don't eat the foam board and actually stick a little bit.

Once you back fill, you will see a ribbon of aluminum between the ground and the lower edge of the exterior finish. It comes in white plus few other colors and is paintable.

The drawback to this method is you may want to use larger dimensional lumber for the wall studding to compensate for the fact that about 1 1/2" of the stud width is not supported by the foundation.

The second method uses aluminum trim coil also. Build the framed wall and sill plate as normal, no offset. Before attaching the trim coil to the exterior sheathing, use a brake (sheet metal bender) to put two 90 deg. bends in it. The first bend extends the aluminum out over the thickness of the insulation board, the second bend turns it down toward the ground.

When finished, you see a ribbon of aluminum, then a narrow shelf of aluminum, then the exterior finish material.

The aluminum trim is by no means a rugged material. It kinks and gets dinged very easily. You might use the same technique with a sturdier material.

It is water tight and won't rot or rust, and protects the insulation which will be worthless in about 3 yrs if left exposed.


The stucco might be a great choice in dryer climates. I don't think it would hold up here for this use.
Dave.
 
   / Preparing site for new house on slab
  • Thread Starter
#24  
I looked into doing an insulated monolithic slab at one point a few years ago.

The monoslabs I was looking at didn't have a footing per-se but rather wings. That is to say the virtical edge of the slab didn't extend to below the frostline.

One of the local contractors I met with briefly suggested the monolithic slab. He showed me his workshop, a 30'x36' Morton post-frame building built on one. He mentioned that the outer edge of the slab was thicker and reinforced to support the outer walls of the structure.

It was only a couple of years old, but it looked good. I was leaning towards a true footing for moisture control and insulation, but I'll give this another look. While it does get cold here, frost heave doesn't seem to be a problem. The top layer of soil holds little water, and the deepest historical frost line is only 14". Thanks for the link!
 
   / Preparing site for new house on slab #26  
I looked into doing an insulated monolithic slab at one point a few years ago. If I recall, they're not fully embraced here in the US. But at the time and this was only a few years ago, that seemed to be changing. Monoslabs seem to be much more common in Europe and in particular Scandinavia. There's certainly lots of infomation about them on the web.

Considerations against was getting a contractor who knew how to do it, the fact that I wouldn't have a basement and potential problems if I ever decided to add on to the structure.

Frost-Protected Shallow Foundation Monolithic Slab with Horizontal Wing Insulation for Colder Climates

Good luck.

Hi Keegs,

I believe they work. I have horizontal wing insulation around our house, it doesn't heave in the winter. I can see a distinct heave line where it ends.

If you are using it in an unheated building, the placement of the insulation is different, so keep that in mind. there is good info on home building technical information resources builders construction remodeling innovations , look for FPSF on that site.

The dilemna RHarkins and I were discussing is the area on your link diagram that is labeled 'Protective Coating'. How to best insulate that and how to protect it.

Dave.
 
   / Preparing site for new house on slab #27  
Make sure the soil is compacted when you are filling in the tree holes.

After all organic material (grass and roots were removed) We had to raise the ground level for the foundation 18" on one corner. We used a vibrating compacting roller and when it was finished the soil compaction was tested. The compaction of the soil should be the same as undisturbed soil.

This ground prep is for an engineered slab that uses tension cables.

The pile to the right was the organic material in the topsoil.
 

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   / Preparing site for new house on slab #28  
Hi Keegs,

I believe they work. I have horizontal wing insulation around our house, it doesn't heave in the winter. I can see a distinct heave line where it ends.

If you are using it in an unheated building, the placement of the insulation is different, so keep that in mind. there is good info on home building technical information resources builders construction remodeling innovations , look for FPSF on that site.

The dilemna RHarkins and I were discussing is the area on your link diagram that is labeled 'Protective Coating'. How to best insulate that and how to protect it.

Dave.


Thanks for the link Dave. I'd like to do an outbuilding at some point and I'd consider the monoslab for sure.

And sorry for the detour...I was soaring and you were in the weeds...:)
 
   / Preparing site for new house on slab #30  
Thanks for the link Dave. I'd like to do an outbuilding at some point and I'd consider the monoslab for sure.

And sorry for the detour...I was soaring and you were in the weeds...:)

It was lonely down there too :eek:
 

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