Previous thread on grading with blade backwards

[Max2310]

I haven't look at the thread posted here but I think that what you may be referring to is not to go backward with the tractor but to turn the rear blade 180 degree and pull. This way the blade float and does not tend to dig. But, in order to do this, you must work with a reasonable amount of loose dirt. I'm sure that gauge wheels would help. Back blading with the FEL is also a good option but usually need more passes.

I don't have experience with a landscape rake but I think it worth taking a look.

My best finishing results were with a piece of fence with a skid on top pulled behind my 4 wheeler (or tractor) and you put the desired amount of weight on the skid.

It depends a lot on the type of material you work with. Some are easier than others.

Have fun!
Max

 

[Steve C]

Steve C - looks like you started with a pretty flat area to begin with from the pics you uploaded. Is this correct? My problem is if I have 30 CY of loam delivered and then try to move it I won't have the luxury of only moving this over an already flat surface. Maybe I'm wrong. I have visions of moving this dirt and creating a bigger mess of whoop-de-doos because of how un-flat the area is now. There were a couple of suggestions provided that I think would help with this - just not sure how successful I'll be.

MarkV - thanks. Read that thread where it's not a good idea putting too much load on moving backwards. Makes complete sense and if it does indeed help (moving backwards that is) I'll take it super slow and not overdo it.

Connor
The area was at one time very flat, but I messed it up big time a couple weeks ago while removing drive material that was no longer needed because my new barn only has doors on the west end, my old barn had doors on the south, east and north sides. All the material was in the wrong location. When I moved it I tried to level it while going forward and I made a heck of a mess. If it had been water it would have had white caps on it. I had a parking area full of waves about 6 inches high.

This is why I think this system works.

I think when pushing the box blade is is self leveling. If you put the rippers about half way down and back into your loam piles, the cutting edge will be 4 or 5 inches above the surface of your lawn, depending on how you have your top link adjusted. This will allow the blade to push anything that sticks above 5" to the back side of the pile it came from. You can then move the rippers up one notch and it will level it all to within 3 inches. You can move them up again and adjust the final pass to plow anything that has more than a 1" variation, and you can probably fine tune it to an even lower trim by playing with the length of your top link. With the box blade sitting on the ground when pushing it just floats, even if your tractor is rocking up and down. If you try to pull it, when your front tires climb a little hump, the blade goes down because the rippers are making it dig and it just digs deeper, then when your front wheels go down the back side of the hump it raises your box blade (or standard grader blade) creating a hump about the same size as the one your front tires just ran over. You can't win. It just keeps getting worse. You try to compensate by using the lift but it is impossible to get the timing right and it get even worse yet. The cutting action is pivoting around your rear axel and the cutting edge of the blade is so far behind the rear axel it acts like a teeter totter. When the front tires go up the blade tries to go down and there is nothing to prevent it. When pushing the box blade in reverse with the rippers adjusted down the rippers act like little skids preventing the blade from digging in. The distance from the rippers (that have now become the pivot point) to the cutting edge is very short. So even as your tractor bounces up and down and you go over humps, the blade can't dig in at all, it can only shear off anything that is above the lower edge of the blade and that distance is adjusted by how far down you have the rippers adjusted. A couple passes at right angles to each other will quickly fill in any low spots and you just leave the 3 point in the full down position and let the blade float. No operator skill required!

I agree that it is not a good idea to push with the 3 point into solid stuff, (I even post a reason why somewhere on this board) but anything you can rip up with the rippers when going forward, or any loose materal can be safely pushed. My little chinese tractor is not known for having strong parts. I was amazed how high I was able to push the pile of recycled compacted asphalt. I didn't even look at it untill I got off the tractor, I was just trying to get it all in one place. I was watching the blade while backing up and when the tractor seemed to start working a little hard I would stop pushing.

Your loam should be a lot easier to move than ground up asphalt. This stuff is very heavy and the sharp broken edges make it want to stick together.

I used my box blade a week or so ago to level a pad for an above ground swimming pool. Due to the slope of the yard I had to remove about a foot of material from the west side of the pool and spread it in some low spots in the yard. This method worked great. I moved and spread about 15 yard of topsoil and clay.

I doubt that this method would work very if the underlying surface would allow the ripper teeth to sink in without much resistance.

 

[Steve C]

Thanks for the help guys. This is a great site. People very much wanting to share their knowledge and newbies like me that really enjoy reading and learning...

I think that you would get good results also from turning a standard grader blade around so it won't dig in, then angle it as much as you can and pull it forward with the 3 point in the down position. It will float independent of the humps the tractor is encountering. The shearing action of the angled blade should fill in the low spots. Pulling it will prevent the type of lift arm damage you might get from pushing it if a hard object is encountered..

 

[KU Gator]

Steve C.

You may well be aware of this, but adjusting the top link makes a lot of difference as to how a box blade will perform. If you set the tractor and box blade on flat ground, you can adjust the top link to where the box sets flat. Then shortening it from there will cause the back of the box blade to raise. But when pulled behind the tractor, this will cause the front of the two blades to dig in and will allow you to move more material to a diffent location. But if you want to smoothe out small dips, you can lengthen the top link. Again if the box is on flat ground the front closest to the tractor will raise off the ground, but now instead of digging so much, it will catch the high spots and the back of two blades will tend to smooth it more than digging so much. It would have the effect similar to one of the other posters talked about turning a back blade aroung backwards, but driving the tractor forward. I'm not trying to prentend to be an expert as it would definitely be pretending, but came across this info when I was deciding which attachment to buy and after buying the box blade I have tinkered with it some.

 

[Steve C]

Steve C.

You may well be aware of this, but adjusting the top link makes a lot of difference as to how a box blade will perform. If you set the tractor and box blade on flat ground, you can adjust the top link to where the box sets flat. Then shortening it from there will cause the back of the box blade to raise. But when pulled behind the tractor, this will cause the front of the two blades to dig in and will allow you to move more material to a diffent location. But if you want to smoothe out small dips, you can lengthen the top link. Again if the box is on flat ground the front closest to the tractor will raise off the ground, but now instead of digging so much, it will catch the high spots and the back of two blades will tend to smooth it more than digging so much. It would have the effect similar to one of the other posters talked about turning a back blade aroung backwards, but driving the tractor forward. I'm not trying to prentend to be an expert as it would definitely be pretending, but came across this info when I was deciding which attachment to buy and after buying the box blade I have tinkered with it some.

Gator
Thank you the tip. A box blade is new to me and I am still learning.

It sure helps to have people share what they have learned, what works and what doesn't. The way you explain it makes perfect sense. By raising the front up a little it allows the rear blade to float on the surface and act like a set set of gage wheels preventing the front blade from digging in.


That is exactly the same thing that the ripper teeth do when I push it backwards with them in the dow position. I think your suggestion should work even better than the method I used. The rear facing blade has a lot more surface in contact with the ground than the ripper teeth do so it should provide much better floatation, especially on softer surfaces, and pulling the blade sure is the prefered direction of travel for all the components involved.

I just need lube up the link arm and start playing with it. My tractor is so small I can reach it from the drivers seat.

Thanks again Gator I'm sure you have saved many new box blade owners and folks who are contemplating getting one a lot of frustration. I can't wait for my next project to give it a try.

 

[KML]

If the material you're speading is fairly loose (sounds like it is) get it spread around where you want it not worrying too much about the whoops, then take a pallet and chain it to the back of your tractor with the slats running perpendicular to the direction of travel. The bigger and heavier the pallet the better.

It's amazing how well this works, and around here, pallets are free! I chain mine to the 3 point arms with a short chain so that I can lift the front of the pallet a little if it wants to dig.

I have a rake with gauge wheels and this is still how I finish. Works very well for me.
Good luck!

 

[HarleyMonster]

I would agree with those who say, "Be careful pushing in reverse."

I had a pad cut on my property by a pro with a big wheeled articulating loader, an excavator and a small Cat and all was well and good.

I then had three truck and trailers of road base delivered to make this pad "all weather." I started spreading the road base with my little 19HP Kubota B-8200 and it was doing fine but was really going slow because of its size. I then borrowed my neighbors Kubota 4310 and the job then was going much faster.

I was almost finished and was pushing in reverse as you describe doing the last bit of smoothing with great results then...BAM! I hit a partially submerged rock that I did not know was there which stopped the tractor and it broke the cast attach point for the 3 point on the differential case of the Kubota.

THAT COST ME $1,000 TO HAVE REPAIRED.

The guy that did the repair for me, installed a new cast housing, said he had seen this several times before and each time the damage was done when pushing in reverse just like I had done.

Pushing in reverse does a good job, but be sure you know what is under what you are pushing or you can do severe damage with a sudden stop.

As someone said, the 3 point is built to pull, not push...believe it.

 

[PILOON]

I have 1200 hrs on my 20 hp tractor and always grade backwards with the blade reversed.
True I don't take huge gulps but I get a good finish.

You simply can't grade pulling as every dip and bump amplifies the blade digging action.

Going backwards your wheels are on the flat so the blade stays flat and therefore leaves a flat finish as you are not riding on dips and bumps.
Naturally the 'bite' angle is controlled by the length of the upper 3 pt adjustable arm.
Short= aggressive and long= less.
As well angleing will gather material towards the center and longer curbside arm will create a crown.

Naturally do not load up like a bulldozer, make more less aggressive passes and for sure don't constantly try to rip our 6" rocks.

 

[Ken Cunningham]

I sold my boxblade so i dont know if they will fit, but can you turn the rippers backwards and pull it. I wish i had thought of this when i was doing my yard.