Pro-Ears hearing protection deal for TBN members

dmccarty · Apr 26, 2002

MChalkley,

Thanks for the update.

GULP! I guess it is time to spend some money. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

I have been waiting for the end of the month to put this on the old
Magic Plastic. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Thanks again....
Dan McCarty

kerr · Apr 26, 2002

I knew I shoda finished the 7th grade. Biggest ,and most ol 2 dollar words I ever seen being flung around since me and my hairliped cousin had that grandslam meadow muffin fight!

Granma had some big ol good ens for us fer sure,something about our cloths and hair.

Not being smart but do plane ol soft ear plugs work sufinctlly er "good enough"? Yes or no will do just fine thank you.

Charlie_Iliff · Apr 29, 2002

Got my Pro-Ears on Friday. That night and Saturday, I put about four hours mowing time on them. I found that with the initial factory internal setting, and the volume knobs all the way up, I could barely hear voices of people close to the machine. They couldn't hear me, of course, because of all of the racket the Power Trac 1845 makes. I haven't yet tried moving the internal jumpers.
My impression so far is that the Pro Ears do a better job than the plugs and the completely passive muffs I have. They are particularly good at suppressing the whine of the hydraulic mower deck. As I turn up the volume, I hear more of the rattles and clunks of the mower than I ever could before. Some of the sounds take a little time to identify, since they simply aren't audible without the Pro Ears amplification.
I did not find the Pro Ears more comfortable than a set of Pelton muffs I have, and in fact they may be a little less so. They didn't bother the earpieces of my glasses, but the internal foam actually hit my ears a bit. The discomfort wasn't very troubling, and I only had to pull one side away and let the noise in to realize that a little pressure or chafe isn't bad at all. Like any other muffs, the Pro Ears are hot. During hot weather, they will not be great fun, since I, unlike Mark, have no prospect of an enclosure, let alone an air conditioned one.
My impression so far is that I wish I'd had these things when I was doing more shooting. I can't imagine a much better system. For the Power Trac, I think they're keepers. It is rare that anyone will be around where I'm working, but I will adjust for maximum chance to hear someone holler. Then maybe I'll try some music.

MChalkley · Apr 29, 2002

Charlie - Thanks for your take on the Pro-Ears. As for particulars:

I found that with the initial factory internal setting, and the volume knobs all the way up, I could barely hear voices of people close to the machine. The initial setting is for amplification to be essentially off. Try moving the jumper to M or H. Above those three positions is another jumper, which I don't think is documented in the instructions. That jumper doubles the amount of amplification for low-volume sound sources, but I found that to be too much for equipment usage. Turkey-hunting, probably very useful, but not on equipment...

I did not find the Pro Ears more comfortable than a set of Pelton muffs I have, and in fact they may be a little less so. They didn't bother the earpieces of my glasses, but the internal foam actually hit my ears a bit. The internal foam is something I haven't noticed at all. Did you try pushing it down a bit? I wonder if that would buy you a bit more clearance. It may very well be that they're a little closer to your ears than the Peltors are - it's not something that I've noticed, though.

Like any other muffs, the Pro Ears are hot. During hot weather, they will not be great fun, since I, unlike Mark, have no prospect of an enclosure, let alone an air conditioned one. They're hot, alright - definitely agreed to! If anything, my un-air-conditioned cab is probably hotter than no cab, and definitely hotter than just a canopy, but I'll suffer the added heat of the Pro-Ears gladly to get the hearing benefits...

I'd sure like to hear what you think after playing with the jumpers, too. One thing I really noticed was the effect they have on noises like throwing a chain into a bucket - it was really strange how they clamped down on it. At one point, without thinking, I took a 3-lb hammer and wanged the side of my 24" backhoe bucket, to slide it sideways a bit so the lock pin would fit into place, and both guys who were standing with me flinched and one put his hands over his ears as I drew back to hit it again (but didn't) - it didn't bother me a bit, even though I was standing on the hollow side of the bucket and they were on the solid side - so I got a louder dose of it than they did.

I used the Pro-Ears with an FRS radio quite a bit. Without hooking it up to one ear cup via the wire, I was able to hear the radio pretty well on a volume setting of 3 or 4 (out of 12), no matter what I was doing on the EF-500. With the cord patching the output of the radio directly into an ear cup, I had to turn the radio volume down to 1, though 2 wasn't uncomfortably loud.

I wonder how the loudness level of your 1845 compares with my EF-500...

Charlie_Iliff · Apr 30, 2002

Mark:
It will probably be the weekend before I get back outside. I'll move the jumpers to m and try first.
A friend just bought a bottom of the line dB meter at Radio Shack. If I can work out the schedule, maybe Sunday I can get some readings around the PT1845. I'm not sure whether the readings from one instrument will be anywhere close to those from another, particularly without strict standards for sampling technique, but maybe I can get something to suggest a level within an order of magnitude.
All I can say at this point is that the PT is a lot louder than our old JD 755, 950 or 2240, Kubota B7100 or Jacobsen Turf Cat - all diesel. People in the area know when I'm running it.

Soundguy · Apr 30, 2002

I know this is a bit of an old message to drum up, but it is worthwhile.

Keep in mind that some sound supressors are rated at a certain db at a certain frequency. Other frequencies can be at less of a noise reduction level. Although many sounds are occupying the same bandwidth, and are mixed... some are not. A car *** going off at 6k may make it through a noise reduction device that is very effective at attenuating low frequency sounds in the 400-4k range ( which will include voice as well. )

Soundguy

"""know more about it than I do, but I used them all day today, and I still say they simultaneously amplify quiet sounds while quieting loud ones. I don't know why there's a discrepancy between what you know is impossible, and what I'm hearing in action, but there is one - and it's considerable. I'm paying a lot more attention to what """

Soundguy · Apr 30, 2002

I take it, they have the analog one, and not the digital one.

Both will work.. reading the one with the needle just takes practice. If it has a slow response setting on it, use it. It's accuracy for quick peak noises will be reduced, but it should be fine for a continous drone, etc. If it has an A / C selector, you may want to use A. I believe a is for industrial noise on the units, whereas C is for vocals, and other misc sounds.. hopefully it will come with a manual to explain this.
Also, keep in mind the distance you are at when making comparison readings. Sound pressure level drastically changes as you change distance from the source. Think about dispersion of radiation, and the inverse square law. As you move away from a point source the spl will diminish non-linerally. Of course, your meter is already calibrated in DB which is a log function anyway.
If you want to play with natural compression of sound waves, try a doppler effect expirement. stand at point 'a', have tractor approach and pass you in a straight line, while taking readings at set distances ( marks on the ground ) and compair the reading with what it sounded like.

Soundguy

"A friend just bought a bottom of the line dB meter at Radio Shack. If I can work out the schedule, maybe Sunday I can get some readings around the PT1845. I'm not sure whether the readings from one instrument will be anywhere close to those from another, particularly without strict standards for sampling technique, but "

Charlie_Iliff · Apr 30, 2002

re: dB meter testing
Thanks Soundguy
I take it, they have the analog one, and not the digital one.
I think it's analog. As I recall when they started looking at catalogs, the digital was more expensive by a bit, but neither would break the bank. My assumption, based on nothing, is that the Radio Shack stuff is too cheap to be accurate, but I am aware, as well, that even with the same meter, two loudness readings that match certainly don't mean that the two sounds will seem the same loudness to the ear.
My plan is to take some readings from the seat, with the machine oriented different ways, and then around the machine at, perhaps, 20 ft distance. If I describe it carefully enough, and someone is actually interested in comparing, at least the technique will be described.
I doubt we'd have much debate, on my current quantitative standards. OK - Too Loud - Too [censored] Loud - Way Too [censored] Loud. My Power Trac falls between TDL and WTDL. I'll be interested how that reads in dB.

JATO_RaT · Apr 30, 2002

Holy socks, all I wanted was a semi definitive answer about what ear protection to consider down the road besides what I already have which are nice lightweight Peltors. I think after all the discussion I'm considerably more confused. I don't want to know how the clock works, I just want to know what time it is.

Patrick, what about this pink noise or white noise stuff from BOSE?

The best hearing protection is the one you'll wear, no wait, thats the best exercise for you is the one you'll do.

Rat...

Soundguy · Apr 30, 2002

If I remember correctly, the analog unit is in the $3x.xx, and the digital unit is 8x.xx.

Both work. As far as accuracy, the radio shack model is remarkably accurate for a consumer grade product, but more importantly it produces consistant results. The same sound pressure level will read on the meter as the same db in repetitive tests.
The digital one can be calibrated as well, if you have access to higher quality equipment.

Good luck.

Soundguy

""take it, they have the analog one, and not the digital one.
I think it's analog. As I recall when they started looking at catalogs, the digital was more expensive by a bit, but neither would break the bank. My assumption, based on nothing, is that the Radio Shack stuff is too cheap to be accurate, but I am aware, as well, that even with the same meter, two loudness readings that match certainly don't mean that the two sounds will seem the same loudness to the ear.""

blurrybill · May 2, 2002

Mark,

Just ordered mine today. Got the discount and they should be shipped right away. Will let you know how they work for me. Really won't know much until tractor arrives about Memorial Day weekend.

Bill

dmccarty · May 6, 2002

BlurryBill,

I ordered the pair that will allow me to listen to the radio. It was
shipped on 4/30,Tuesday, from PA and got to me Saturday, 5/4.

We got a good rain on Saturday, which we needed, but that kept
me from working with the new ear protection. I have to box blade
the road and that seems to be noisier than using the rotary cutter. /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif
Hopefully this weekend I'll be able to put these things to the test.

I did put them on while in the house. It really cranked up what I
heard from the TV and my familie's talking. There was SOMETHING
missing from what I was hearing. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

I asked John when I placed my order how many he had sold and he
said six. I don't know if that was all the Pro-Ears or just the model
I ordered.

The Pro Ears are well built.

As soon as I get some tractor time I'll write up what I think...

Later...
Dan McCarty

MChalkley · May 7, 2002

Bill & Dan,

I'll be interested in hearing how they work for you.

I've found that it's awfully easy to take them for granted. My wife says I sure make a lot more noise when I'm working with them on... /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif I guess she's right, because I notice that I'll just throw a chain in the FEL bucket when I'm standing right in front of it, whack on something with a hammer really hard, stuff like that... Anyway, keep us posted!

Charlie_Iliff · May 7, 2002

Mark:
I found that mine were set with the jumpers in the medium setting, so I moved them to high. I am pleased with them generally, although they aren't as comfortable as I'd like. There is some pressure from the foam battery covers that I haven't yet solved. It is minor, but noticeable.
I heard my neighbor's joiner running, so I offered him the Pro Ears. He decided that it was more polite to ask me to get him a set than just to keep mine and lock me out. They are perfect for that use, since you don't hear the howl, but can hear the progress of cutting your wood.
I borrowed the dB meter, but won't be able to test anything until this weekend.

MChalkley · May 7, 2002

Charlie - I heard my neighbor's joiner running, so I offered him the Pro Ears. He decided that it was more polite to ask me to get him a set than just to keep mine and lock me out. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif He sounds like an unusually polite neighbor...

I think I've now got mine on the high setting now, too, though it may be on medium - I'll have to check. I tried setting the doubling jumper at the very top, but it was just too much for use on the equipment - I was hearing all kinds of weird stuff - 'bout drove me crazy. I'm still interested in hearing (sorry) whether your being able to hear normal conversation while using the PT improved when you switched it to high, when you get a chance to check. My EF probably makes less noise, but on my last project the group of folks who were so impressed when they were playing around with them kept messing with me to test them. As I would go by, they would be talking to one another saying stuff like "I wish he knew how to run that machine - he just knows enough to be dangerous." "What's that, engine oil running out of the bottom of his tractor?", stuff like that, just to see if I could hear them - and I always could, unfortunately. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Charlie_Iliff · May 7, 2002

Mark:
My son and I did about two minutes' worth of testing, where he sat on the running machine at about half throttle and I talked to him. The Pro Ears certainly improved his ability to hear me talk, but I still had to raise my voice. Where I could barely hear him without the muffs, he could clearly hear me with them.
I hope to do a better planned series of tests this weekend, but if it's like the past one, other jobs - and preparation for a Monday trial - will probably interfere once again.
Incidentally, I assume you haven't come across the W.R. Long solenoid valve. If your place is like ours, such things are only found while looking for something else. I did a little hoe and 4 n 1work over the weekend which once again demonstrated that I need to modify the system to get the hoe curl and bucket open and closing on the joystick. It may be, however, that I'd be better off leaving it as is and blaming the clumsiness on the controls rather than my ineptitude.

Charlie_Iliff · May 12, 2002

Did some testing with dB meter. On the seat, my PowerTrac 1845 is about 88 dB at idle under roof, about the same at medium throttle on the road, and 96 dB mowing brush with the rough cut mower at full throttle. It was 92 to 94 dB 20 feet away while mowing - any direction. (94 consistently on right, where exhaust aims.)
Pro Ears made sound easy to take. I can understand things said in a bit above normal voice 20 feet away if I turn the volume up pretty high.
The Pro Ears are definitely keepers. Either they are getting slightly more comfortable or I'm getting more used to them. Clearing brush and poison ivy off a steep hill today, I could easily forget I had them on. Of course, it's easy not to think about noise when you are sliding sideways toward a tree, wondering if you'll end up hung with the trunk between front and rear wheels. (It never felt unstable; I just repeatedly went beyond where I had enough traction to hold the hill. This time, I didn't get in any situations that required outside help.)
It was in the 80s today and the ProEars were hot, but not as bad as I expected. Not really comfortable, but tonight I can hear - and have no new tinnitus.

dmccarty · May 13, 2002

Well, I finally was able to wear/use my Pro Ears while working this weekend.
I got the Diminsion 2's so I could listen to the raidio while working.

Here is a quick review.

When I first got the Pro Ears I noticed how much they weigh. I figured they
would be very tiresome after a few hours.... I had to take off the backhoe,
put on the 3PH, mount the MX-6 rotary cutter, use it for 6-7 hours, take off
the cutter and put on the box blade. Running the MX-6 is the most noisy
work I do with the tractor. The engine RPMs are really up there on the JD4700
when mowing.

Taking off the backhoe takes some time I think I have finally figured out the
most effiecient ways to get the thing on and off at this point. It would be
easier if I had a flat concrete pad to set the JD48 down onto but I don't. I do
the use the Tiltmeter to get me pretty close. I wore the Pro Ears the entire
time I was working to get the backhoe off the tractor. I did take them off
when I was putting on the 3PH. But when I was putting on the MX-6 I wore
the Pro Ears. It took me a good 30 minutes to get the cutter hooked up.
A slight slope caused me some problems... /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

I then mowed for a good 6 hours.

I hooked the Pro Ears up to my cheap radio and was able to listen
to it without any problem's what so every while mowing grass, rocks,
and some saplings. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif I was very impressed.

The Pro Ears have two volume controls, one for each ear. This is
very nice. After awhile I got tired of listening to the tractor noise
so I turned them down.

The Pro Ears are much better hearing protection than the inserts
I normally use. When mowing I would put on better ear protection
but in my usuall operation I would just use the inserts. With the
Pro Ears I can listen to things if I want. If I get tired of listening
I just turn off the Pro Ears. With only a few hours of seat time
I'm not totally convinced but I think the ability to tune out the
tractor drone cut down on operator fatigue.

When I was putting on and taking off the MX-6 as well as the
box blade I wore the Pro Ears. While the Pro Ears are heavy I
never tired of wearing them. I figured they would be to tight but
they are not at least for me. The tightness just seems right. I
got smacked a few times by branches but the Pro Ears stayed on.
Even with the heavy labor of getting the attachments on/off the
Pro Ears where not noticable, other than cutting down on the
engine noise.

I did have a neighbor talk to me while I was on the running
tractor. Unfortunately it was not a long conversation to really
try out the Pro Ears. I think I understood him without a problem.
Or to put it another way, I understood what he was staying
without straining.

The bottom line is that the Pro Ears work. They allow me to
listen to the radio which keeps me from getting tired. I think
I can hear people talking to me. They are comfortable. It was
warm but not really hot the day I used them. They might not
be as comfortable on the summer days but time will tell.

Later...
Dan

MChalkley · May 13, 2002

Charlie -

I haven't found the W.R. Long valve yet, but don't give up quite yet, if you can wait a little longer - I've got some more stuff in another location I'm going to check...

96 dB mowing brush Ouch! That's pretty loud. I haven't had a chance to check mine with the meter yet, but I plan to.

Pro Ears made sound easy to take. I can understand things said in a bit above normal voice 20 feet away if I turn the volume up pretty high. That sounds about right, from my experience, too. They seem to increase the sensitivity of my ears, though - everytime I forget to put them on when I'm working around the equipment, I just about scare myself to death with some noise that's a whole lot louder than I expect it to be... /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

The Pro Ears are definitely keepers. I'm glad you like them - I'd sure hate to think I steered you wrong in parting with your brass. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Either they are getting slightly more comfortable or I'm getting more used to them. Probably about 50% of each. I've noticed that mine seem to have loosened just a bit, making them a bit more comfortable...

Not really comfortable, but tonight I can hear - and have no new tinnitus. Yeah, I guess that about sums it up - I'd rather not have to wear them at all, but it's nicer to be able to hear when you're done.

MChalkley · May 13, 2002

Dan,

The bottom line is that the Pro Ears work. They allow me to
listen to the radio which keeps me from getting tired. I think
I can hear people talking to me. They are comfortable. It was
warm but not really hot the day I used them. They might not
be as comfortable on the summer days but time will tell.

Thanks for the detailed review - and I thought mine was comprehensive... /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif As I said to Charlie, I'm glad you don't think I gave you a bum steer - I admit they're pretty expensive for ear protection. But then again, it's hard to put a price on the value of ear protection - and it's impossible to put a value on being able to hear safety-related sounds at the same time, in my opinion. I've never been willing to wear ear-plugs, passive muffs, or standard noise reduction muffs, either, for that matter, because I wasn't willing to give up being able to hear the other sounds. So these are the best of both worlds - I'm tickled to death with them so far. And, as your preliminary evidence also indicates, I'm pretty sure I tire a lot less with them on, which also has to contribute to safety, too.