Product quality

banjobj · Jul 7, 2004

Is it just me or is the quality of products in general poor? It seems many of the things I have bought lately have been defective. Things just don't seem to be made like they used to be.

Gary_in_Indiana · Jul 7, 2004

Congratulations! You're now officially sounding like an old guy. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif I know the sound well because I hear it emanating from my mouth quite often. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Nothing wrong with it. Just a part of the process. Enjoy. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

beenthere · Jul 8, 2004

Depends on what it might be. For example, just had the plugs changed on my van at 96,000 miles, first time. 50 years ago that engine probably would have been in the garage for the second valve job, and maybe more.

Now, we get more features in our CUT's than 50 years ago, with less weight (plastic, aluminum, etc) and 4wd, and hydrostatic, and many attachments that didn't even exist 50 year ago. Gas is cheaper than then, as well.

So, I am not complaining, but there are now some things made to 'throw away' rather than fix. Still, tend to agree with your feelings, only a little bit though. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I'd like to be younger too, because this 'product' quality in this body isn't what it used to be. But I'm havin' some fun anyway. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

GerardC · Jul 8, 2004

I don't have the first refrigerator that I bought (1992), but my mother (in her 70's) still has her parents fridge?! Things just aren't what they use to be /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif. G

slowrev · Jul 8, 2004

More things today are designed to be disposable and not repairable.

DaveNay · Jul 8, 2004

I don't know if I would say that the quality is really poorer, just that the products are designed "differently". It's hard to put your finger on it, though. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Dave

rozett · Jul 8, 2004

I agree! /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif About 20 years ago, I had a friend and coworker that was originally from India. He always said that Americans had a f***** up sense of value. And I have come to agree with him. Generally, Americans shop by price.... as evidenced by the meteoric rise of WallyWorld and other big box stores. We tend to whine about quality, but continue to insist that we shouldn't have to pay for it.

Even my local welder insists that things just aren't built to last any more.

Richard · Jul 8, 2004

( We tend to whine about quality, but continue to insist that we shouldn't have to pay for it.)

Bingo, my sentiments exactly. I was in the market for some ratcheting binders and went to numerous places INSISTING I was going to buy US made, verses made in China. (seems US made are more & more difficult to find /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif)

Without comparing (or recalling the prices 2 years later) I think I probably spent an extra $150 or so because of my CHOICE to buy US and do my small bit to create demand for someones job.

Part of me felt stupid choosing to pay extra, but another part felt much better because my money was where my mouth was.

slowrev · Jul 8, 2004

Has anyone ever thought about the fact that if you buy good used US farm equipment you are often giving the money directly to a consumer like yourself without the several layers of middlemen or foreign corporations involved ?
You are not boosting the trade deficit with a foreign country. You are also usually getting a product that was engineered to last ( with normal repairs) and not be disposable.
Also any repair work you have done on the equipment supports your local economy more than a multinational corporation. You are providing a living for your neighbor, not a bonus for a CEO someplace else.
It is also common in rural America to swap out services. ie swapping hay for labor involved in a repair. This is local / where you live economic support.
I do buy some cheapo Chinese stuff, but try to support my local economy as much as possible and sometimes there is no choice, try to buy some items that are not made outside the US.
I buy my gas and many of my groceries at the locally owned country store. Sure I pay a few cents per gallon more, but I know whose pocket it is going into, vs buying at a chain gas and go where the only money staying local is the minimum wage the clerk is paid.

Thanks for putting up with my rant.

Just my thoughts, but then I am just a rural small farmer with more time than money, but not a lot of either /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Enjoy life and help your neighbor, they might even help you back someday /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

wroughtn_harv · Jul 8, 2004

Man this is double sided coin subject. I do believe it's more about different than quality on most things.

However just yesterday I had a conversation with a potential customer in the throes of deciding whether to go with my quality or the other guys price. And there is a substantial difference. Two of the bidders were less than half of my price. Of course they were the ones booked up for six months and no examples of their work they wanted to share that was over six months old. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I imagine they'll go with me, cry like abused children during the process, and then be prouder than a two tailed pup afterwards.

My biggest complaint on the price versus quality issue is the companys that enter into a market emphasizing price and then cry like big dawgs when no one takes them serious on quality. Or someone else is willing to drop the quality bar a little lower and cut them on price. They really squeal like a pig in a poke then.

DaveNay · Jul 8, 2004

( ...cry like abused children...
...prouder than a two tailed pup....
...cry like big dawgs...
...squeal like a pig in a poke....)

WOW! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Dave

Bird · Jul 8, 2004

Harv, how about when the customer has no idea about the difference in quality or what he wants? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif We bought a new house in '72 and I knew I wanted a 4' chain link fence (250') around the back yard plus a 12' double drive gate and two 4' walk gates, but I really didn't know hardly anything about chain link fence, but asked around, got an idea of some questions to ask, then called 3 companies to come out and give me bids.

The high bidder was annoyed by any questions I asked and I suspect he deliberately quoted a high price just to get away from me. The low bidder sent a kid to measure and do the estimate. I asked how deep they set the posts in the ground and he said, "About 3'." I echoed, "Three feet? Line posts and corner posts?" He looked puzzled and asked if something was wrong, didn't that sound right, and I told him that was good if they really did it. So I asked what gauge wire they used and he had no idea; decided he better call his boss. The boss told him it was 30" on corner posts and 2' on line posts and the lightest materials made. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif The middle priced bidder (and the one who got the job) knew all the answers, knew what he was going to use, brought samples with him, and he did a good job, too.

slowrev · Jul 8, 2004

Bird,
I had similiar results when buying/pricing a wooden privacy fence. I wound up with the middle priced one too which knew what he was doing and brought a photo album of his past work and gave references of where I could go examine his past jobs.
Professionals are hard to find.

Junkman · Jul 8, 2004

( I don't have the first refrigerator that I bought (1992), but my mother (in her 70's) still has her parents fridge?! Things just aren't what they use to be /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif. G )

I "purchased" a 1947 model and even though it doesn't look as good as it did when I made the purchase 20 + odd years ago, it still looks acceptable. It still works well, but just not as fast as it used to. Didn't come with any type of warranty, but the contract said that you had to keep it for life, no matter what happened. Occasionally, you hear a groan or moan out of it when it starts to move in the morning, but considering the age, it is acceptable. I guess that I will keep the original purchased model, because the newer models, even though they look sleeker, they are also high maintenance items that require constant spending of money for up keep and to keep them properly located.... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

banjobj · Jul 8, 2004

I also try to buy Made in USA when possible, but as we all know, it is impossible with our world economy. I'm not against foreign products ( NH TC 21 D), but I am greatly concerned by job losses in this country and my belief that quality in general has gone down.

wroughtn_harv · Jul 9, 2004

( Harv, how about when the customer has no idea about the difference in quality or what he wants?)

I think we owe it to ourselves to be an educated consumer.

From my perspective I don't stand a chance unless I educate the customer if they aren't already. If someone is going only on price I'm severely handicapped. I won't use those materials and I won't do it that way to get the price down.

Most contractors of any size these days work on a subcontractor system. They don't have any employees and the responsibility for the quality of the work is solely one the sub even though it's the contractor's reputation.

In a conversation the other day a competitor explained to me that part of his profit margin was that the holdback on the sub would be his. The sub would do something that would justify the contractor not giving him the final percentage.

It's a game. The contractor figures the holdback into his margin and the sub goes in not counting it into his profit.

Of course the customer is the one that's hurt.

Most of the differences between my way and the cheap way is thousandths, I use schedule forty pipe, they use schedule thirty or twenty. Or a little time, I figure the extra minutes digging down three plus feet versus two feet is the difference between smiling when I go by three years later and ducking my head. Concrete isn't that much of the cost of doing a job. But it's the best insurance for having a good job. I use lots of concrete.

I never pressure a customer about having me do the job or when to get it started. But I will lock down like a mule when it comes to doing something that I think they'll regret down the road.

I feel me having to redo something while doing the job or making changes while irritating isn't anything compared to what the customer will go through if we don't over time.

But then I rely on my reputation and customers to keep me busy. I also look at myself as a professional who's hired not just to do the job but to do it in a professional manner. I'm hired not only for what I do but what I know. And if I feel what they want me to do is not in their best interest I won't do it. They can get someone else.

mwechtal · Jul 9, 2004

Gerard,
Depending on the age of your mother's fridge, it may have ammonia refrigerant. This stuff is fairly dangerous(anhydrous ammonia), which is one reason that it's not used anymore.

Mike

gws · Jul 9, 2004

No one is demandnig quality and most are demanding low cost. Were to blame for the poor quality as much as the manufactures are. DO you look for quality when buying? How do you even do that now a days with many products. Name brands mean nothing now a days. Use to be you could go by brandname but seldeom now. Eveone is OEMing products.

Junkman · Jul 9, 2004

The demand for low cost is what has made Walmart successful. People that shop Walmart, for the most part only want low prices and the quality is secondary. What I did find interesting in one Walmart Super Center that sells food, the vegetables looked spectacular. The local vegetable market isn't that far away and also sells high quality products. The only difference is the price and neither seem to be hurting for sales. People will pay a premium price for premium quality food, but not a premium quality television or stereo. Seems that many people are more in-tune with quality when it goes into their body through their stomachs, rather than their eyes..... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

DAP · Jul 12, 2004

My SO was doing some grocering at the "Always" super center (WalMart). The selection was huge, the prices low to moderate, but the quality somewhat suspect.

They have a seafood kiosk in there. I bought a couple dozen steamers one afternoon. After checking out, I cleared the entire area of the return/customer service center returning them. The odor was horrific. The look on the service person was priceless.

Haven't been back since though.

Bad shellfish is worse than bad.