Project PT1850

[ToolcatWonka5610]

RegL said there's a PT1850 on ebay for $3,500 that had rolled into a lake. It looks like it's missing 6 tires, and could use a new hood and some paint. I told my Dad about and if the Deutz Diesel engine isn't bad it sounds like not to bad of a repair. Does anyone know what rolling down a hill into a lake could do to a Deutz Diesel? The seller said it had only 94 hours and it has a cab. If the Deutz is ok, fixing this up could possibly save you half price than buying a new 1850 or less. What do you guys think?
Power Trac 1850 Duetz diesel, 94 hours, new oem starter - eBay (item 260379399095 end time Mar-28-09 05:47:10 PDT)

 

[SnowRidge]

Do you know if it was running when it went into the lake? I would be concerned about thermal shock if it was.

Generally, when an engine is submerged, it should be left that way until someone is ready to work on it. When it is pulled out, it should be disassembled and/or flushed immediately. All the fluids need to be replaced, and the engine needs to be run to drive off any residual moisture.

Unfortunately, most of the time it gets pulled out of the water and sits around until someone gets around to working on it. In the meantime, corrosion is taking its toll. Not being run for a long time after being submerged probably means a rebuild.

 

[woodlandfarms]

My machine was restored as well. Not as bad as this one that is for sale but. Ksimolo, who is also on this board, rebuilt it. The engine was new, so it did not have to be replaced. Here is a link to a guy whos machine caught on fire and he rebuilt. A very good assesment of what you might face

My Power-Trac PT-1845

If you do the work yourself, and you understand hydraulic systems, you might be able to get out from under the project for 10, maybe 12K. The tires and rims alone are $300 each, times 8, 2400. Plus shipping? Deutz needs to be rebuilt - 1000. Hoses and hopefully not bad pumps - 4 to 5K. Electrical, 1K. Probably the cooler in the back engine compartment is destroyed, $1300. New compartment, who knows how much.

Also, I am not sure how old that PT is but it looks to me to be a 1990s system. If that is the case, the wheel motors probably need new gaskets from having sat so long (same with the pumps).

OK, so I am being negative. It can be done, and no matter what you put into it you will have it cheaper than a new 1850. And I LOVE my 1850 although I spend a lot of time fixing it. Also, PT systems are simple. So you do not have to be overly handy to fix things, just know which direction a bolt turns and some basic auto electrical will get you by.

If I had the time and money, I might take something like that on but it is a serious amount of knuckle busting you are looking at.

 

[Bob999]

RegL said there's a PT1850 on ebay for $3,500 that had rolled into a lake. It looks like it's missing 6 tires, and could use a new hood and some paint. I told my Dad about and if the Deutz Diesel engine isn't bad it sounds like not to bad of a repair. Does anyone know what rolling down a hill into a lake could do to a Deutz Diesel? The seller said it had only 94 hours and it has a cab. If the Deutz is ok, fixing this up could possibly save you half price than buying a new 1850 or less. What do you guys think?
Power Trac 1850 Duetz diesel, 94 hours, new oem starter - eBay (item 260379399095 end time Mar-28-09 05:47:10 PDT)

Unless you are very familiar with the PT 1850--and understand the configuration of the specific unit--I think that the task of rebuilding one will be daunting.

First you probably don't have reliable documentation about the unit. One of the frequent complaints among owners, of which I am one, is the paucity of documentation. The manuals most owners receive with the unit are primarily partial parts lists and partial schematics of electrical and hydraulic. There have been many posts that the info in the manual doesn't describe the unit purchased. It will be difficult to identify what is missing without documentation unless you have experience with the unit.

Second, from the picture there are significant missing parts that are either available sole source from the manufacturer or will have to be custom built--I have in mind wheels, loader/quick attach parts. Also the brake components of the brake tender system look pretty corroded and if you have to replace them the same comments apply. The sellers statement that the engine will crank but not start suggests problems with the fuel/injector system. You might want to talk to a diesel repair shop to get some idea of the costs to repair this part of the system because my impression is that parts for the injection system can be very expensive.

I would also want to know when the unit rolled into the lake and what maintenance, if any, was done upon retreival from the lake. Another question is how was the unit stored after retreival from the lake. If it has been sitting outside for years you can be sure all rubber parts will have to be replaced and that includes many hydraulic hoses as well as motor mounts. Electical componets will probably also have to be replaced to have a reliable unit.

 

[SnowRidge]

Look at the 1850's specs carefully. It's loader capability is no better than a 1430. It's a whole lot more money for the same loader with a lot more power to damage it. Just ask WoodlandFarms about that part. It also can't get where the 1430 goes, and it weighs a whole lot more.

Needless to say, implements for the 1850 are a whole lot more expensive than those for the 1430. If you don't need the slope mowing capabilities, why would you want it?

 

[ToolcatWonka5610]

One thing we like about the 1850 that it seems like a more dedicated Mower and Bushogger (which are our main tasks) and can do much of the same landscaping tasks as the 1430. Plus the area I'm from here in Michigan, we have a lot of slopes that'd be better to take an 1850 on than a 1430.

But were not sure about buying yet. First we have to find out all the damage, parts, repair, labor and cost and if it's worth it before we decide.

 

[woodlandfarms]

The 1430 is rated to 30 degrees. That is pretty darn steep. My built in meter fails around 30, and my tractor is rated to 45. I think that if you were to put the PTs on a platform you would find the roll over point much higher than stated. Probably insurance purposes....

The 1430 is no less of a mower, brush hogger than a 1850. It does not have quite the hydrualic power, so a narrower deck.

If I were in your shoes, I would consider a 1445.. That extra oomph goes a long way. They used to or still make a 1460 which maybe just an 1850 without the extra wheels.

As Bob said, there are no shop manuals. There may be a hydraulic schematic for that year (there is one floating around) but not for anything new.

Buying is not easy. Take your time if you can. The PT is not for everyone, but it is a way cool machine.

Also I do like the dual wheels, it really makes you feel a lot more secure on the slopes emotionally.

 

[ToolcatWonka5610]

I've been thinking about the 1445 even since I've been checking out the 1430. The 1445 may be more suited to our needs since it's closer to an 1845 or 1850. I'm gonna do some checking to see if I can find a cheap 1845 or 1850 for sale.

 

[Bob999]

The 1800 series units are designed with first priority as slope mowers. To get the steeper slope capability they give up something in the lift/loader capacity. Dual wheels are a part of the increased slope capability. Dual wheels are also, in my experience, an increased maintenance requirement and at least on my 1845 the mounting system for the outside wheels is a weak point. I have broken many studs that PT charges $6 each for and which are a pain to replace.

If you need the increased slope capability then the 1800 series are the way to go--the also have the automatic braking capability to immobilize the machine if you have a hydraulic failure.

On the other hand, if you don't need the extreme slope capability then the 1400 series units offer greater lift capability and don't introduce the problems of dual wheels.

There is also a variation in the types of mowers available for the larger units--the 1845 offers a finish mower but I don't think there is a finish mower offered for the 1445.

 

[Gravy]

I would bet next week's lunch money that it is scrap metal. It's 15 years old, it's been rolled into a lake while running (how else would you roll one into a lake?), it won't start, the wheels & tires have been cannibalized off of it. Most likely, if it was feasible to get it running, it would BE running.

The only way it could have been saved would be to quickly pull it out of the water and immediately flush the fuel system, lubrication system, hydraulic system, brake fluid, etc., and then repeat several times with numerous filter changes. Even then, it would be damaged. None of those systems benefits from water contamination. Neither do the electrical parts. I would bet that the lake water it ingested was not particularly clean after having a tractor roll down a bank into the water.

It's possible that it can be made to run again, given enough work and money, but you'd be way better off starting with a running machine.

I really doubt that it's worth $3500. I'd guess more like $350.

In your place, I'd be cruising Craigslist nationwide.

Good luck,

Gravy

 

[BobRip]

Given the comments here I would offer the guy the $350 and another $1000 or so if you get it working within a year. I think it is probably junk, but if you want a project then go for it. Just don't pay much for it.

 

[SnowRidge]

(how else would you roll one into a lake?)

I really doubt that it's worth $3500. I'd guess more like $350.

It could have gone into the lake while on a trailer, or had the land under it give way while parked. Without knowing for certain that it went in cold, the only safe thing to do is assume it went in red hot while running on the hottest day of the year.

It's worth no more than scrap weight at today's rates, whatever they are in MI.

 

[SpringHollow]

If you don't need the slope mowing capabilities, why would you want it?

I have yet to come close to the slope capabilities of the 1850 but there are other reasons to have one. For me, the duals have been great. The ground impact with them on is the same as my atv. Before the 1850, there was only 1 year i was able to get my regular tractor into the woods because the trails would be too muddy from the springs. Now, i have basically swum through the muddiest spots with the 1850.

The duals are also great for loader work. To clean out my ditch that i use to have to hire out to a full size backhoe with an extend-a-hoe, i widened it so my tractor with the duals can run up and down it. I bring out loads that are the limit of my 1200 lb lift capacity up out of the ditch at a 45 degree angle to the ditch and never think twice that i will tip. My regular CUTs tip with the bucket raised on the closest thing i have to flat ground here (hate it when that rear wheel lifts off the ground). Not the PT1850. It has been a godsend. It gets easily 20x's more hours put on it than my CUTs ever did because i can actually use it!!! I would likely use a 1430 or 1445 more than my CUTs but not nearly as much as I use the 1850. When i bought the used 1850, i did so because I thought i might use the slope capability. I had been looking for a used 1430. I am very glad i did not find one before i found the 1850.

Ken

 

[ToolcatWonka5610]

I have yet to come close to the slope capabilities of the 1850 but there are other reasons to have one. For me, the duals have been great. The ground impact with them on is the same as my atv. Before the 1850, there was only 1 year i was able to get my regular tractor into the woods because the trails would be too muddy from the springs. Now, i have basically swum through the muddiest spots with the 1850.

The duals are also great for loader work. To clean out my ditch that i use to have to hire out to a full size backhoe with an extend-a-hoe, i widened it so my tractor with the duals can run up and down it. I bring out loads that are the limit of my 1200 lb lift capacity up out of the ditch at a 45 degree angle to the ditch and never think twice that i will tip. My regular CUTs tip with the bucket raised on the closest thing i have to flat ground here (hate it when that rear wheel lifts off the ground). Not the PT1850. It has been a godsend. It gets easily 20x's more hours put on it than my CUTs ever did because i can actually use it!!! I would likely use a 1430 or 1445 more than my CUTs but not nearly as much as I use the 1850. When i bought the used 1850, i did so because I thought i might use the slope capability. I had been looking for a used 1430. I am very glad i did not find one before i found the 1850.

Ken

ksimolo you pretty much summed up why where looking for an 1850.
But that 1850 is a complete write off. I just though I'd post it up and see what kind of damage could have been done. I'm a newbie to Power-Tracs anyway. But if anybody sees an 1845 or 1850 for sale, let me know.

 

[ponytug]

I think that one has to assume the worst case scenario on this unit, i.e. it was running hot when it rolled into the lake.

I would point out that it has a cab with an AC cooler on it, with an enclosed cab. Someone went to substantial extra effort on this unit.

On the bright side, none of the glass is cracked, which suggests the ROPS wasn't hit hard. On the other hand, the engine photo looks as if the battery case is folded toward the engine and the engine is folded toward the fuel tank. I'm having trouble imagining how you could bend things that way, unless the tub is bent (doesn't look it), or a tree fell on the engine compartment.

As others have pointed out, if the engine inhaled water, it is probably a write off at this point, but the hydraulics might be OK. The fact it cranks over suggests at least some of the interlocks are working. (The fuel solenoid may not be...)

I'd consider buying it for parts. But you would be a lot of parts shy of a running 1850.

I have the 1445, and I use it routinely on 25 degree slopes. More than 25, I run up and down them perpendicular to the slope, as I am no longer comfortable with my safety zone. (I've never tipped mine, and I would like to keep it that way!) Over 20-25 degrees on our hard clay/gravel slopes, the tractor does have some traction issues. I have been fence sitting about going with forestry chains, or duallies, $1200-$2400 respectively. PT recommends against dualies on the 1445, but are OK with wide singles e.g. turf tires.

One comment on the 1850 for brush cutting; the 1850 has a three rotor brush cutter. This keeps the mower close to the tractor, and reduces the tendancy of a heavy mower to torque the tractor downslope in a cross slope cutting method. However, the rough cut mower is not really a brush cutter, more of a heavy grass/weed mower. Check with the factory, but I was encouraged to go for the 1445 with its 72" two blade brush mower, because I wanted to cut down shrubs. I can say that for mild (20 degrees and under) it is a tank, mowing anything and everything in its way. I mowed a burned out tree stump 2' x1'x2' by accident on Friday. Unintentionally! It had been a horse toy and the ponies had left it in a pile of weeds. However, on steeper slopes 20-25 degrees, the mower is a long way out from the center of mass of the tractor and has a tendency to torque the tractor down slope as the wheels slip. As a result, I mow the steeper slopes perpendicular to the contour, i.e. up and down hill, as I find it easier than compensating for the slip and worrying about finding a woodchuck hole on the downhill side.

If you have slopes, I think that Power Tracs are great machines. I can't imagine doing the work that we do with anything other that a PT or something like the swiss version.

If you plan on doing a lot of brush cutting, I would consider a secondary oil cooler for the engine, and a bigger fan on the hydraulic cooler. They are relatively cheap insurance against getting too hot. I know what it is like to brush hog in Michigan summers.

All the best,

Peter

 

[SpringHollow]

Looks like he did some work on that PT1850 and it is back on Ebay at a much higher price. Possible he had two.

Ken

 

[woodlandfarms]

So I looked at the machine at ebay again. There is something hinky here.

Lots of little notes...

That cab looks like a PT creation. Seems to well thought out for a home brew. It is even sealed from the elements at the bottom.
Doesn't look like he got a qa plate on it.

I also wonder if he replaced all the wheel motors, cause as far as I know those are not the original rims (meaning they are for a different tractor).

Looks like he bent the cover straight.

No air deflector on the engine.

Right side steering cylinder has some surface rust...

 

[ToolcatWonka5610]

Thats a 1990's machine because there's no PT adapter, its the 3pt setup.
Anyways it's gone and it was too much work.

But I think it was sitting and the ground gave way. If it rolled many times down a hill would there be damage to the cab? Doesn't appear to be any.

 

[SpringHollow]

Not gone - looks like the same one with some work done to it and a MUCH higher price:
search for Power Trac 1850 and you will see it.

Ken

 

[ToolcatWonka5610]

Hey! Looks like he fixed it up.