Propane backup generator

[PineRidge]

I agree with 5030 (Daryl) I think a Generac self contained unit is the way to go. I had originally planned a spring installation of one of their 15KW units to be fired on natural gas but I have had my hands full here with other projects already in the works. I'm still going to get one installed and I'm still also still wanting a Generac.

 

[mahlers]

You might want to consider having a dedicated permanent propane tank installed for the generator. I thought it was overkill, but then a guy explained to me what the usual scenario is if you *really* need long term power - you lose power for a couple of days, and your generator runs your main propane tank dry - which leaves you with nothing. If there's a widespread outage and/or disaster, the propane company probably won't be able to get your tank refilled as quick as you might want. If you have a dedicated 350 gallon tank for the generator, you're good to go for at least a couple of weeks with round-the-clock electricity.

I'd also suggest looking at the Onan units. They're more pricey than the Generac generators, but they really are very nice, run forever, and they're *real* quiet.

 

[reb]

5030:

The Norwall site has the best prices I have seen on the Generac units, with free delivery.
You said it cost you $450 for professional hookup, just to validate the warranty. For those of us capable of doing it ourselves that amounts to about an extra 20% for the warranty. For that price I would forego the warranty--that will buy a lot of parts.

 

[40Kchicks]

Reb

Here is one more thing you could consider since the backup is just for your shop. I bought a used Miller Bobcat welder for $800. It is an onan powered 8.5K generator that runs on gas. I think I got a pretty good deal on it because it’s in good condition and starts easily. A new one will run about $2500 but you can use it to weld out in the back forty. Mine is kind of noisy but I needed a short term emergency generator, a portable welder for the farm, and the price was right so I went for it.

That is another option but if I was in your situation I would backup the whole house with the setup like 5030 bought.

We also have an 85KW onan that we use to power our chicken farm. It starts and transfers power automatically. Auto transfer switches are really nice but are a luxury item for a house. On the other hand they are needed for situations that are life and death like on my farm or hospitals.

Eric

 

[reb]

40Kchicks:

I like that idea about the welder. I have thought a lot about getting one. The downside to using it as a backup on my garage is that the wife might have problems setting it up if I am not around when the power goes out.

The way my place is laid out it would require a separate generator to back up the house. Setting it up for one to operate both would be too expensive--poor planning on my part when we built.

The automatic features of the Guardian units I have looked at are almost gravy. When I considered the cost of a quality portable generator, transfer switch, some kind of weather protection for the generator, and the extra maintenance (keeping fresh gasoline, manually testing it periodically) I figured $2100 for a 7kW Guardian was a good deal.

 

[5030]

Gary:

I have mine in the back of the house. It certainly is not any more noisy than a lawnmower and I can't run my electric appliances with a lawnmower.

I have 0 trouble with the generac. I tend to forget about it, that is, except for the 6 month maintenance.

I bought a Yamaha unit for the camper. It's only 2500 watts but it's one of those new ones that provide true sine wave 60hz power even at an idle. It was $1300.00, half the cost of the Generac. I think it has a 9 pole generator head.

 

[5030]

Reb:

Maybe I stated that wrong. Generac recommends that a "qualified generac Installer do the hookup". Any qualified, certified journeyman electrician can do it. I just wanted to be doubly sure that in case of any trouble with the unit, that I was covered as far as warranty issues. On the warranty card for the unit, there is a spot where the installer has to sign and state his license number.

I did the physical install myself, setting the unit, ground rod, breakout box, installed the transfer switch and conduit. The installer load tested the unit, check it for proper frequency, wired the breakers into the transfer and did the 4 hour load run-in.

There is a lot of stuff in that enclosure. Stuff that I make no pretense of knowing about. I wanted to make sure that when the power went out, and it will in the future, that the unit operates as it should without a hitch. that is why I covered my butt with the installer.

I certainly don't want to have a backup unit that won't backup when it has too and when I need it the most.

 

[AndyR]

I bought one of the little Honda 2KW gensets (EU2000i, ran about $975) last year for our camper. It is super quiet and actually pretty usefull - I use it alot now for power tools instead of dragging out the big extensions.

Glad to hear your Generac is working well. I figure the large propane source is needed just to keep the gas presure up. I seem to recall a thread a while back about storage leakage over time - though with the simple gauge on most tanks it would have to be pretty extreme to notice it.

 

[5030]

Andy:

All the inverter generators, Yamaha and Honda make the box store units look like rocks. The ticket price is higher but the power is true sine wave and pound for pound the inverter units are much lighter and I believe they will last longer too.

 

[v8dave]

Mentioned here is the reason you need bigger propane tanks is because they freeze--true. Propane is a liquid in the tank. It evaporates to make the gas vapors (actually, it boils). Evaporating/boiling liquids uses energy, heat in this case, and will reduce the overall temperature of the remaining liquid--which slows the evaporation rate and eventually the flow rate of the gaseous vapors. The bigger tanks have a larger surface to absorb heat from the surrounding area and keep the evaporation/boiling going. As the tanks get colder the outside gets frosty. If it continues long enough, and the outside air is cold enough, the propane will no longer boil and the gas stops flowing.

You can get a Propane system that has a tank bottom feed and supplies liquid propane to the power plant carburetor. It will evaporate in the carburetor. Gaseous and liquid propane carburetors are different. You need a specific one for either type of propane fueling--one size does not fit all. In addition, if you live in an area where you have extended periods of sub zero temperatures, propane my not work for you as a reliable fuel source either way. Not enough ambient heat to boil the liquid.

In temperate climates propane is an ideal fuel, providing you don't run out, because it doesn't go bad in the tank. It is always there ready to go. Gasoline and Diesel fuel go bad over time and will require draining and replacement if not consumed (time varies, but they are not likely to last a year).