PROPANE TANK OWNERSHIP

[Diamondpilot]

In my area you get a free 500 gallon tank if you buy 2 fills per year. If not it's usually $50.

Chris

 

[Raspy]

Could it be that your provider 'tops you up' often enough to keep the pressure up? or your tank is big enough that you never go below 1/2?

That problem only exists when the tank is very low as the lower it gets the lower the pressure is. The cold 'shrinks' the pressure to the point that the gas stops flowing.
Heating causes the vapor to expand resulting in increased pressure.
In the colder zones you actually only get to use half of what you paid for if they swap out 100 lb cylinders.
With the larger site refilled tanks you get to use that balance next summer.

Burying the tank makes sense as the ground temps would keep the pressure up, however the tank would need to be below frost level.

Huh? The tank pressure is only related to the temperature of the liquid propane as long as there is any liquid in it. It is always at the boiling point pressure for a given temperature. Once the liquid is gone the pressure drops.

Drawing gas out of the tank cools the remaining liquid as it boils. So sometimes, if the tank is small or low on liquid, a high draw can cool the puddle fast enough to cause a pressure drop. Same thing with very low outside temps. But pressure is related to the temp of the liquid, not the volume of liquid.

 

[aczlan]

Huh? The tank pressure is only related to the temperature of the liquid propane as long as there is any liquid in it. It is always at the boiling point pressure for a given temperature. Once the liquid is gone the pressure drops.

Drawing gas out of the tank cools the remaining liquid as it boils. So sometimes, if the tank is small or low on liquid, a high draw can cool the puddle fast enough to cause a pressure drop. Same thing with very low outside temps. But pressure is related to the temp of the liquid, not the volume of liquid.

That's why most forklifts and propane powered vehicles pull liquid propane out of the tank and convert it to gas in a expansion chamber that is heated by the engine coolant.

Aaron Z

 

[AGRIMAN]

I'm no expert either, but I feed my big curing oven (8'x8'x24') with a 500 gal propane tank. The oven needs 6 to 8 psi at the regulator to run. During the summer we have ran with less than 5% in the tank. During the winter, if the tank gets below about 25% the oven will shut down.

 

[ultrarunner]

Years ago our farmers got irked at what gas companies where charging for propane and formed a producer cooperative. I'm lucky enough to be in their service area. Sadly, electrical power is just the opposite we're paying $33 a month meter charge and 0.129 a kW with prices guaranteed to increase over the next three years thanks to mandates for power companies to produce 30% of power through alternative means. Since our power company buys power from producers, we take in the backside and electricity prices alone are starting to gentrify rural living, a thing that is already energy intense.

Just bumped our meter fee to $10 from $5 to offset solar users that often have no net usage.

Top tier rates have dropped as it was pushing folks to solar... last bill was blended of 24 cents per kWh...

Natural gas usage most of the year is about $10 a month...

Propane at the cabin is very expensive... not many alternatives...

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Just bumped our meter fee to $10 from $5 to offset solar users that often have no net usage.

Top tier rates have dropped as it was pushing folks to solar... last bill was blended of 24 cents per kWh...

Natural gas usage most of the year is about $10 a month...

Propane at the cabin is very expensive... not many alternatives...

I'll cook through 2000 gallons of propane this winter. I locked in an option contract that works out to 2.25 a gallon through our coop. During the summer we buy our gas for the winter and we fund the trading desk by paying for the delivered contract. This way the coop makes a little money floating the difference between the cost of the contract and the cost of the underlying until they exercise the contract and take delivery in bulk.

 

[farmer2009]

Locked in 14,000 gallons back during the summer on 5 leased tanks for .789/gallon. 4-1,000 & 1-500 gallon tanks. Was the cheapest i could find. It was the company I already had. Must purchase 70% or there is a penalty.

We keep at least 20% propane. A tanks withdrawal capacity is rated at 20%. Any less is subject to pressure drops as there isn't enough surface area to get the proper liquid to gas conversion. If you are running close to withdraw capacity.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Locked in 14,000 gallons back during the summer on 5 leased tanks for .789/gallon. 4-1,000 & 1-500 gallon tanks. Was the cheapest i could find. It was the company I already had. Must purchase 70% or there is a penalty.

We keep at least 20% propane. A tanks withdrawal capacity is rated at 20%. Any less is subject to pressure drops as there isn't enough surface area to get the proper liquid to gas conversion. If you are running close to withdraw capacity.

You must have farm use in order to lock in that option.

 

[PhysAssist]

In Newyorkistan I don't think I ever saw a buried tank setup, the northern part that is. Besides here in the sticks there is normally only one company and they rape you mercilessly although I hear lately there is a bit of competition and prices are more fair. They were always pretty good at nailing you while the prices were high as were the oil companies when you were on a fuel contract program. You could always count on fuel exactly when you didn't want or need it right after the contract expired yet before the summer price drop. Then there is the issue of that fugly tank taking up a nice piece of your yard.
If you are the do it yourself type it's all too easy to just scrounge up two to 4 100 lb tall thin tanks and just fill them yourself. You just go buy an auto switching manifold setup and go fill them at the cheapest local gas station that sells propane. It used to undercut the ripoff outfits like Amerigas or Suburban by well over 1/3. It may well be a bit lower of late but still it's no hassle to fill 100 lb tanks yourself. I just incorporated a strap into the mid section of a cheap hand truck and it moves them easily. You can't keep the gas company out of their tank as you have no control at all but you sure can if you do it yourself and you don't need to buy one for $900 and stare at it every time you look out the window. If you can't find old used tanks you can buy them new in Lowes even here in the nanny state of Newyorkistan even though stores cant sell gas products unless they furnish installation.

Well, IDK where you are, but around us here under the big lake, more than 95% of the big tanks are buried for all of the reasons previously given.

We don't have any BoS, but own our tank (as per the original owner/builder, whom we bought from) and even so, the other propane companies (other than the ones who buried it -Agway at the time, and now Suburban.) all stated that they won't touch a tank that someone else buried.

We're seriously thinking of getting an automatic propane backup geneator, but would need second tank to run it off and have been thinking about whether we should contract with Suburban for that one too.

 

[check]

Huh? The tank pressure is only related to the temperature of the liquid propane as long as there is any liquid in it. It is always at the boiling point pressure for a given temperature. Once the liquid is gone the pressure drops. Drawing gas out of the tank cools the remaining liquid as it boils. So sometimes, if the tank is small or low on liquid, a high draw can cool the puddle fast enough to cause a pressure drop. Same thing with very low outside temps. But pressure is related to the temp of the liquid, not the volume of liquid.

Very interesting discussion. I will be calling my propane supplier today, to see what they have to say. Perhaps the reason why my generator stoped working was that the pressure was too low, not that the tank was completely empty. Still, it was not very cold outside.