Property purchase falling through.. BIG LEAN!

[r0GuE]

Some of you may remeber theat I was in the process of purchasing 3.2 acres that an old woman in my neighborhood had owned for 60 years. I'll leave out the excrusiating details, but in short, my lawyer found a $1200 lean placed in 1959 when the water company came through here. I guess it was that much because of the 500 or so foot of frontage. In 1959 (as I understand it) you could buy a car with $1200.

So they never paid, and God only knows how much the interest and penalties are. Luckily my lawyer found it, so I guess this deal is dead. I calculated the ave annual interest (based on a site that gives the monthly fed rate). Since 1959 the ave was 6%. If they go 2% above fed, the property is now the water authorities to sell....

The seller was to provide me with a survey within 30 days of the signing of the agreement. He is late, so that initiates a clause that terminates the agreement. I'm free and clear except for the $$$ I owe my lawyer. OH well, it was worth a shot.

The sad part is, that this old woman was counting on that land for some dough in her old age. But her hubby thought "he'd show them" and never paid the water authority (or perhaps couldn't). She claims she had no idea about it, and the old man died years ago. He showed them alright, and in the process shafted her... /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

I guess not taking on a BIG pile of debt is a bit of a relief to me. The only reason I wanted it was to insure nobody built there. I bet if the water auth gets it, they will file the deed away and it will remain vacant for many years. It has a swere right of way through it so it goes important places (to the water sewer place!!).

Any comments of advice appreciated, (sorry so long).

 

[Bob_Skurka]

I've slapped liens on property owned by others and I've waived the interest charges. You might want to find out a few things, one is to make sure the lien is still valid, it may not be depending on the age of it and if it has been re-registered (some states allow liens to expire). Also, the lien may not be valid anymore due to the death of the owner; but that depends on how the property was titled when th lein was placed, and how the property is titled now. Have your lawyer dig just a little bit more. State laws vary greatly.

Also, is your lawyer a general lawyer or a Real Estate lawyer? R.E. lawyers are specialists, you might want to find one of those to dig into this.

I bought the 4.6 acres next to my property about 18 months ago for the same reason you want the 3.2 acres next to you. The 4.6 had a lien on it and I agreed to pay the lien, the property owner agreen to reduce the price, the lien holder agreed to accept my payment as payment in full. I did not offer interest, they waived the interest.

 

[Junkman]

I purchased a property in CT this past spring that has a Federal Income Tax lien on it and when my attorney contacted the IRS, they had no records of it. It is for a small amount and they said that they would send a release of lien, because it apparently had been paid. The seller told me that it was paid many years ago. It turns out that the IRS sent him a release of lien, but he never filed it and has since lost it. This might be the case with the property that you are considering. The lien should tell you the amount and the interest charges if any. I wouldn't just give up on this piece of property if it is necessary to protect your privacy, but I would spend some additional money to see if the lien is still a viable instrument and if so, how much it will cost to get it released.

 

[Gary_in_Indiana]

Both good pieces of advice. Find out from some local Realtors who the big real estate attorney in the county is. Talk with him and see if there isn't something that can be done. Maybe it should have been released and wasn't. Maybe it's expired as can happen in some juriisdictions. Maybe no one at the water authority even has any record of it any longer and you can secure a release from them.

Even if the lein is still valid, it's not impossible that, given the situation, that the utility might release it for a reasonable sum. If they won't and end up with title upon her death they'll probably be willing to sell it to you then. You might even be able to buy a Quit Claim deed from them now. It guarantees you nothinig other than any interest they may or may not have in the subject property.

As I said, talk to the top local real estate attorney and see what he can do for you.

Good luck with whatever you can work out. I hope this helps. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[r0GuE]

My lawyer is a real estate speciallist. In fact he is in his 70's and still practices for the love of it.

I plan to bide my time and be patient. The family of this woman have been unbelievably obstinant and downright negligent in the points that they were to have acted upon in the contract. Time has given me the opportunity to realize that I probably agreed to too high a price. It is very builder un freindly. I'm gonna "sit up" (bicycle raceing term, and let what happens happen. This agreement is dead, but I wouldn't mind trying to get it at its actual market value (as I assume it is really worth 20-25k rather than 35k).

I had just worked myself up into a frenzy thinking that it would be used in a worst case scenario. I imagine that it may not even sell given the slope, right of ways that have been sold, and so on.

 

[jpr62902]

I'm not a real estate attorney but I play one on TBN. In Ohio, there's a marketable title act that says you only have to search a title back 40 years to assure the title is marketable\clear. How that applies to liens\mortgages or deed restrictions (e.g. life estates) I'm not sure. Just a little food for thought.

 

[r0GuE]

Yeah, the water auth had to renew the lean. It was renewed in 1964 and 1984. In fact, it is due to expire in Sept 2004.

I'd like to walk away from this deal. I will approach them and ask for a signed release of contract. What's in it for them? If they wait until after Sept, and the water auth doesn't renew the lean, and they sell quick before the water auth catches the mistake, they can beat the system leagally.

 

[MikePA]

In case anyone wants to do any searching on this topic on the Internet... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

lien - n. The right to take and hold or sell the property of a debtor as security or payment for a debt or duty.

lean - adj. Not fleshy or fat; thin.

 

[AndyM]

<font color="blue"> lien - n. The right to take and hold or sell the property of a debtor as security or payment for a debt or duty.

lean - adj. Not fleshy or fat; thin. </font>

A lean lien is ten dollars or less! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[r0GuE]

Very good point. Although I found that when I searched, my fingers didn't get the word!

I wrote up a little release contract and asked her to sign it today...

She did... Se below:

Cancellation of Contract


BE IT KNOWN, the undersigned, mr buyer and mrs buyer(Buyers), and mrs seller (seller) hereby agree to terminate the Agreement for the Sale of Real Estate dated May 19th, 2004, for the mutual benefit of both parties, rendering it null and void with no further force and effect. The deposit of $1000 currently held by the seller will be returned to the buyers within 30 days.



mr buyer _________________ Date_________

mrs buyer___________________ Date_________

mrs seller ____________ Date_________

Witness _______________________ Date________

Look good enough??? Any lawyers out there??? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Bob_Skurka]

I'm NOT a lawyer, but I have them on staff.

I would amend a few things. First, you say she will return the money in 30 days, but don't give the actual date. I would do that.

Second, and this is the biggie, there is no penalty if she does not give the money back! A standard legal contract would have a penalty clause that begins to charge interest on XX day of month, year.

Further, another standard clause that is missing is the collection fee clause that says if she doesn't return you money she agrees to pay reasonable collection fees.

Finally, there is no clause that determines jurisdiction, although that is probably legally irrelevant because I presume both parties live in the same county, but if she lives somewhere else, then she could fight it in another county or even another state and force you to travel to fight her in HER court rather than in your LOCAL court.

As it is now, if she doesn't pay you then you really have no recourse other than to sue her and then you won't even collect interest or legal fees unless you get a judge that is very sympathetic to you. And you are trying to take advantage of a widow . . . or at least that is what her lawyer will say in her defense.

 

[BotaGuy]

Since you have a R.E. lawyer already, why don't you have him write it up and collect the funds. I would not give 30 days for dispersal of funds. Get the money back within 10 days or less. Also, if they failed to abide by the original agreement, that agreement would be null and void anyway.

 

[bgott]

You just gave her $1000. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif If she's really nice, or senile, you might get your money back. Next time use a title company and put the money in escrow.

 

[r0GuE]

She signed the release. I think she will give it back. If she doesn't I could sue her. I don't think it will come to that. We are neighbors and she is an ok woman.

Thanks for all the legal advice though!!! Never fails to amaze me the combined knowledge of the TBN crew! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[txdon]

Those pesky leins just seem to pop up. On my property someone from New York had a 60K lein on it. (Thank you title company for finding that!) The land owner that owed the money sold the land to his brother by "quick title" and his brother was trying to sell it to me without dealing with the lein. When I found out they told me I could back out of the deal but I hung in. The brothers paid off the lein, (for a lot less than 60K) and about 5 months later the land was ours. It was stressful but it worked out very well. Hope your land fiasco works out for you.

 

[r0GuE]

I was just thinking, that since that $1000 was given for the purchase of the property, if she doesn't return it, I can file a lean on the property (maybe)!!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[r0GuE]

Got the 1k today! What a relief. Now the only concern is how much I owe my lawyer. He said the title search was a bear so who known how much I might owe. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[r0GuE]

OUCH!!!
$600 for the title search. He said it was a tough one digging back 45 years to find the source of the lean.
Lesson learned. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif