Property survey question...

Henro · Jul 31, 2003

Hi,

My daughter and son-in-law are buying a house. It is in an established suburban area...read houses packed in next to one another...and they had a choice of survey types. Staked or not staked.

Well, I told them they better get a staked survey, since they had mentioned putting up a fence maybe...where we live a foot or two is not a big deal...but where the houses are packed together inches may mean something to the other guy, if you know what I mean.

So they call and get the survey they ordered changed to a staked survey. I stopped by the house and found only two markers. One in the patio near the back of the house, and the other in the road surface at the back of the property. Nothing in the road at the front of the house or anywhere else.

So my question is, can someone explain the terminology used for surveys? In my mind a staked survey would have a stake in each of the property corners and maybe one in the middle of the long sides as well.

This really puzzles me. Unless the staked survey never happened...

Is there some other name for a survey where a pin in put in each corner of the property?

I simply don't have a clue... /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

johnhalf · Jul 31, 2003

I'm not an expert but my understanding of "staked ", from the property I've dealt with, is just as you described, each corner and maybe some in the middle of long runs.
I don't mean to be paranoid, but when you have a bunch of lots cut out a larger parcel it is important to have a registered surveyor clearly mark the corners, and the property lines between you and the adjacent properties before you close. It could save big problems later.

jh

grandad · Jul 31, 2003

Well, I'm not any expert on surveying, but the real 'heavy lifting' done by a surveyor is confirming that the legal descriptions in the deed, referring to previously set markers, such as an iron pipes, etc., when describing the distances, angles, arcs, etc. are precisely correct for the property, and physically locating each of the reference points. Sometimes the surveyor can simply confirm that all such markers are in the place they should be, or they may add other temporary survey stakes denoting the property lines. That sort of sounds like the 'staked' vs. 'non-staked' thing. I wouldn't be shy about calling the surveyor to ask about the markers. After all, you're paying the tab!

DocHeb · Aug 1, 2003

Around us a staked survey means they will mark any "set irons" that have been driven into the ground over the years, usually demarkating corners of properties. If you ask before they start, they'll run a couple side markers - but if they have to make another trip back I don't think it will be free.

Gary_in_Indiana · Aug 1, 2003

The survey company I used happily came out in the spring after having done the survey in the dead of winter and placed stakes on each and every corner. I then went around and replaced them with T-posts so that they'd be real easy to find years down the road.

In the situation you describe, I'd think a simple phone call or visit to their offices should be all it would take for them to arrange to send someone out to clearly mark the corners of the property. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

MikePA · Aug 1, 2003

During college, I worked for my FIL who was a civil engineer. We did lots of surveys for property owners, as well as subdivision plans where we marked lots as well as streets, etc.

I've never heard of a 'staked survey', which doesn't mean they do not exist, just that I've never heard of them. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

For a standard survey, we'd install 2" x 2" oak stakes in each of the property corners. The oak stake was pounded flush, or a little above, ground level so lawn mowers would not hit it. A small tack was placed in the top of the stake to mark the exact corner. In the case of property corners in asphalt roads, we pounded a large head nail into the road and installed an offset oak stake on the right of way. Extra cost options were metal posts at the corners or concrete markers that had a brass marker on the top.

If asked, we'd install guard stakes every place we put an oak stake. We'd also tie orange tape to the top of the guard stake. In the event of a property dispute, the angry neighbor would usually pull out these guard stakes thinking they were 'destroying' the survey. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

For long runs (a long run to a surveyor is when there's no clear line of sight to the next set up point), we'd tie ribbon to something that was close to the property line. I can not imagine a run that long in a subdivision.

I'd check for the flush stakes in the ground where the corners are and at the road right of way. There should be pins or stakes at each corner and they are probably flush with the ground. There also might be large headed nails in the road.

dummy · Aug 1, 2003

I'd be willing to bet the crew didn't get the order change until after they had been to the house. Call and ask if they'll have someone come back and show you (on site) where the corners are. You can then identify them however you want.

Henro · Aug 1, 2003

Hi,

Thanks for the advice and pointers!

Last night we received a copy of the survey...faxed to our fax at 9:36 PM becaue the daughter doesn't have one at home.

The interesting thing is that the place they are buying IS in a a "plan of lots" and for some reason the it looks like the property boundaries do not extend out as far as the curb. Now there are sidewalks...at first look it seems strange that they would not own out to the curb...

Anyway, perhaps I missed something by expecting to see a pin in the area near the curb. I did look all around though, but maybe not close enough becaue I was expecting to see a piece of ribbon or something indicating a pin being there. This is VERY commonly done in this area.

Another interesting thing [to me anyway] is that they took the time to put small pins [maybe just concrete nails] with pink ribbon under them in the patio and up on the road in the back, but do not note these on the drawing that was faxed to me. Another survey I have seen recently, related to the sewer project that is going in here showed everyone of those things, whether driven it to trees or whatever.

I'll post an update when I find out more...I guess I just expected to see something pink or orange marking stakes or pin locatioins at the corners...and I KNOW I did not miss any surveyors marking ribbons!

One other thing...hold onto your hats now...the lot size of the house they are buying is 50 x170 roghly...wonder if that calls for a new "what size tractor?" thread??? /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

12 hours later...

I may have just set a record for time taken to make a post. Started this one this morning and did not hit the right continue button...

Guess the survey guy must not have gotten the word to put the stakes in the corners...he is coming back to do it next week...

The survey without stakes showed enough to make them comfrotable with the sale...down to the neighbor's wall encroaching by 0.4 inches...

Thanks again for the help!

and...

Guess I did post it after all...but somehow found the edit screen up and thought I didn't post it...oh well...

MikePA · Aug 1, 2003

<font color="blue"> it looks like the property boundaries do not extend out as far as the curb.</font>
In my experience, the deed usually describes property lines running to the center line of a road. However, there's also usually a road right of way that extends past what might be paved. IOW, my existing road is only 20 feet wide, but the right of way extends to 30 feet.

<font color="blue">up on the road in the back</font>
If these pins are up the center of the road, or in a straight line, they might have been used to establish what angle to turn when the transit was sitting at a corner of the property.

1. Place the transit at the property corner.
2. 'Shoot' up the road to one of the pins.
3. Zero the transit.
4. Turn the transit the number of degrees described in the deed.
5. The transit should now be pointing up one of the property lines.
6. Measure the distance and mark the other corner.
7. Move transit to this new corner.
8. Shoot the first set up point.
9. Turn the transit the number of degrees in the deed.

etc.

Same process until you've gone completely around the property.

OkeeDon · Aug 1, 2003

Thinking of surveys, I didn't get one. Our 5 acres was platted, along with several other parcels, from a larger ranch. The parcel is at the intersection of two roads. My daughter lives next door and they had a bank-required survery, so I had two corners. The property beside us was just sold and they had a survey, so I had one of the corners confirmed and a third marked (they found the existing iron stake).

Now that surveyors have gone to fancier equipment, automatic levels have gotten pretty cheap. I bought a Nikon automatic level, spherical head tripod and aluminum rod on EBay for about $270. I bought a 300' fiberglass measuring tape from Home Depot for $30. I had the plat map from the county showing the measurements to hundredths of a foot. The property is exactly rectangular except for an arc at the road intersection, and I had the exact measurements for that.

We set up the level, set the angles by shooting to the existing stakes, measured as close as we could with the tape, and established the points of the arc at the 4th corner. We set some intermediate stakes and doublechecked everything.

We then staked out where the house, barn, road, septic and well would go, took pretty accurate measurements, and used TurboCad to draw up a preview "as-built" showing where everything would go. I'm reasonably sure I'm accurate to within a couple of inches.

Is it certified? Of course not. But, it appears it's "close enough for government work". Once I explained what equipment I had and the procedures I used, the Health Department and the Building Department both accepted it as good enough for the permits. It probably wouldn't be accepted by a bank for financing, but we didn't need that. I don't know what it costs locally to have a 5 acre survey, but it's at least $500, so the equipment has already more than paid for itself. I've also used it to to get elevations and do a preliminary landscape survey of the major trees we saved so I know where they are in the planning. This weekend, I'm using it to set elevations for the driveway culvert. Next, I'll use it to set elevations for the swale I'm planning along the 800' driveway. I'll use it as a builder's level during construction, then I'll put it back on EBay and maybe get all my money back.

This construction stuff is fun!