Prospective purchase for the mountains.

[ericm979]

Ventrac and similar units are not going to do well for carrying heavy objects like logs. Not enough loader capacity. Their PTOs often are hydraulic and limited in power compared to the engine driven PTO of a regular tractor. Even if they have the right 3pt rear linkage for a PTO chipper and can pick it up, if they have a hydraulic driven PTO they won't have the power to run one properly.

Their impements are often proprietary which means you have little choice and are locked into buying from that manufacturer.

I think one might be better than a CUT for mowing steep slopes but generally they're worse at everything else you can do with a tractor.

 

[cqaigy2]

Possibly not going to help the OP, but still an idea. Back in the day, loggers were going to larger skidders and a smallish one could get picked up for pretty cheap. They were very stable, lots of power. I'd seen some where people had adapted all kinds of mounts and hydraulics and such for push blades, FEL etc.

 

[jeff9366]

Their PTOs often are hydraulic and limited in power compared to the engine driven PTO of a regular tractor. Even if they have the right 3pt rear linkage for a PTO chipper and can pick it up, if they have a hydraulic driven PTO they won't have the power to run one properly.

Take in one or two of the Ventrac videos.

Rear TPH optional. No rear PTO.

Front PTO is straight mechanical drive like a compact tractor but power transfers by rubber belt rather than tractor splines to implement PTO coupler. PTO implements look relatively easy to mount.

Ventrac produces front chippers.

A time tested design.

 

[/pine]

...Box Blade is the most common implement used for Three Point Hitch counterbalance to FEL lifts...

Exactly where did this statistic come from ?....

I'd guess a BB is a common counterweight for loader work because it commonly complements FEL work...especially when dealing with earth or gravel etc...
...Also for compact tractors... a BB may not be the heaviest implement available for counter balance...BB's made for smaller tractors are often lighter...(technique and operator savvy make up for brute weight)

As for safety working on grades...even in regions where the land is flat you still hear about roll overs etc. mostly from working around ditches etc...

If the land is too steep for wheels...get some mules or oxen...!

 

[Egon]

As stated before: A tractor with 30 to 45 HP. , HST, 4x4, loader & backhoe would suit your purposes. Trail reclamation gets much easier with a back hoe as does making new trails and just general road maintenance. On narrow trails and from the woods you have to drag the logs due to clearance issues and it is also easier on the tractor. Little two wheeled log dolly help in this. [fancier log towing gear is availabe but not required] A back-blade for grading roads will also help.

Mowing is mowing. For super steep slopes stay off. On the rest of the slopes use caution and keep aware of your direction.

You'll not require any of the one job dedicated equipment. A tractor will do fine.

 

[rScotty]

Thanks all. It seems that people really recommend the Ventrac/Steiner or Powertrac instead of a traditional tractor for the inclines and the mountainside. It's tough because it's so niche and limited for 3rd party implements ... My budget was probably around $30k all-in, not sure i"m budgeted to do both, unless we go heavily used. Even so, in this market it'll be tough. I noticed a lot of people recommend a larger series frames, I'm just not sure the agility makes sense in the trails.

A few of the posts here made a lot of sense, and gave me a little comfort but i just have an aching bad feeling about my inexperience combined with the side of these slopes.

I think you've summed it up pretty well. After 50 years of tractoring in the mountains I'd agree that a traditional tractor does just fine on most - but not all - dirt roads in the mountains. Anything off the road is limited to going straight up the slope a short distance and backing down. Going DOWN even a modest slope front first is disaster in a tractor with a FEL. You can get started down, but cannot stop. Side slopes are even worse. That's not a knock on our tractors. They were optimized for flatter land that is common in the USA. As I said a few posts ago, the European models are optimized differently. Unfortunately they are complex, little support, and probably out of your stated price range.

As for the niche machines you named, if I was starting all over again I would probably put them at the head of my list. It is the path less traveled, but mechanically and design-wise they seem surprisingly good. If you look around this forum you will see again and again that owners say the manufacturer and dealer support is exceptional. That counts for a lot. Many parts are standard industrial components which make new prices look pretty good, and used prices are excellent.
Good luck
rScotty

 

[Egon]

Think you’ll be wanting to go down a steep slope front forward. If there is a FEL on lowering it and digging some dirt helps slow down a lot.

 

[kantuckid]

This will go on for a bit, opinions are free as we all know...
I'm 77 and live on land too. Our private road is both steep and about a 1/2 mile to the house from pavement at our mailbox. Even a small 4wd tractor will easily maintain your road-the challenge is enough power to pully a box scraper filled with rock up whatever slope you've got.
My Kioti DK35SE 4wd is probably close to the least hp that will do well for me to do my road, skid logs and load my sawmill deck. I really could use a stronger loader but at my age I'm on the downhill slide toward some types of work ending. As my R4 tires have become worn, I find in snow I wish I had deeper, newer tread or ag tires sometimes-depends on the snow depth and how much ice, etc...
In my county the two straight stretches of hwy have actual local names as do the hills. Virtually nothing near me is flat for many miles- exception is a few creek bottoms. Experience is the teacher-maybe you have a neighbor to lean on? Like said above- know what your doing before you play on slopes! There's no shortage of dead tractor operators over time.

Forks require a ballast box, i.e., rear weight-period! Titan sells a cheap one-mine is filled with crushed rock. It offsets the FEL weight in use & loaded plus it prevent too much front axle loading. My neighbor has a 100hp Long 4wd tractor with a broken front axle casting that is unobtanium and he uses a weight too.
I'll disagree that 4wd is a must for a loader- on level ground that's far from true-on slopes yes indeed! I'm from NE KS where there are slopes-some not many. When younger nobody had a 4wd tractor. Even 4wd pickups mostly were not seen until the 1960's other than military vehicles or the handful of 4wd trucks. People used chains. One of my neighbors who's also a professional forester, logs his own land using a 4wd tractor with chains welded on the tires semi-permanently. I simply stay away from places I'll never get out of on our steep land. Fact that I hired a dozer top build my woods roads make it easier to keep them open for fire protection and for me to log the place as needed, not a full cut.
Whether to use tire fluid & what type is an issue once you've got the machine. I much prefer a tractor that has some serious weight w/o fluids as a primary concern.
You need to define what reclaiming the woods roads means? If a box scraper can level them up OK then you'll need to make a bank withdrawal to cover the seeding-ha! Also may need to build berms on slopes to avoid washout-web reading will help you. States like mine with timber operate logger training/certification which includes such reclamation-here in KY it's part of the Master Logger Program. Study up on that by contacting your NC forestry dept which you need to do anyway since you now have stewardship of forest lands.
There are a bunch of tractor that meet you needs-don't go too large just because you have deep pockets-buy what does your work.
Loggers in my area where it IS! the major industry, often use large 4wd tractors to skid logs and as loaders. A compact tractor doesn't fit that criteria as the loaders are under powered and don't lift high enough to clear truck log standards.
I logged field pins using a Ford 8N tractor for several years on our place years ago. It wasn't ideal but what I could afford. Carefully knowing what was possible made that happen w/o mishap.
In looking at tractors the tier 4 issues become a topic- decide what size, what price range and if you'll tolerate re-gen tractors or not?

 

[critternut]

I have very steep property in SW Virginia. 20 years ago I bought a used 4WD, power shifter John Deere 4500 with front end loader. I turned the back wheels so the tractor is wider. This has been a marvelous tractor on this property. I only go "up down" on hills - not sideways. The front end loader is typically down to keep the center of gravity low. I use a low gear. It is still scary sometimes, and as I get older, my bravery is not as good, but my wisdom is better.

Best advice I ever got - if you feel uncomfortable working on a particular stretch, don't do it! A lack of confidence can be as bad as overconfidence.

Having overgrown sections is not bad - the wildlife likes brush.

 

[dflur]

You have a lot of options. Like some people stated, you need a wide stance and weight. That is not what you get in a compact tractor. I would look at older rebuilt tractors and find something heavy and reliable and maybe an older backhoe/loader for other tasks. If you do decide to go compact, I would hire/rent a dozer and get things reset.