Prospective purchase for the mountains.

[jphillipsfarms]

Hey all,

Last year, we purchased 105 acres in the mountains of Western North Carolina that are mostly wooded with about 6 acres of meadows in hollows and plenty of overgrown old logging roads that we'd like to reclaim. The prior owners quit maintaining everything a few years ago except for the lawn around the house and the driveway.

The main driveway is about a 3/4 mile and is useable for now. The other trails and meadows are overgrown and need a lot of work to get back to usable condition. In addition to cleanup, there seems to always be something on the property that needs done (trees, brush, etc).

Our original intent was to hire out local professionals to support the maintenance, but it is clearly cost prohibitive considering the ongoing work required. I'm capable of learning, but an I am admitted "city slicker" with no experience with tractors.

I'm looking for advice!

I tried local dealers with experience in the area, however nothing is in stock. I've found a 2038r in North Florida for what I consider an acceptable deal in these current times. However, the advice from dealer seems limited to their experience in tropical temps and flat ground use. For example: I was told that extra ballast isn't required except for filling up the tires with water (only water). Wheel spacers are not beneficial. I'm not knocking them, because they know their stuff.. just not familiar with the terrain of another area.

So I'm seeking out some advice and support from the forums. My first and major concern is safety with regards to tipping/rolling the tractor in the mountains.

1. My inclinometer has 13 degrees vertical as the max of our main roads on the property and that's just the driveways. I'm very concerned about tipping the tractor and wanting to configure it in the safest way for the mountains.

2. I was going to start with box blade, forks and bush-hog, (and ballast) and wait until determining if I need other equipment. Looking for input on if the standard frontier implements BB2060, RC2060 is adequate.

3. What comparative models would you recommend from Kubota, Massey etc..

4. What advice would you give to someone who is using their equipment higher in the mountains? I would probably use a Zero turn for the lawn grass. Tractor is truly for utility.



Thanks everyone!

I will weigh in on the ballast question. Liquid balast (water and antifreeze) would be the most economical choice. The tires should have tubes in them so that the liquid does not rust your wheels. Most dealers are going to cover this with you.

Wheel weights are fine, just cost more. I prefer the weight (ballast) to be closest to the ground, so I have used liquid ballast unless I bought a tractor with wheel weights on it already. Either way, ballast will also improve traction if you plan to cultivate (plow) your soil. Those bar type treads work well on your rear tires, load those tubes with 600 pounds of liquid on both sides and you have better traction and stability.

If you are buying a used tractor, consider one that already has a front loader on it. The loader attachment can be expensive to add and may require modifications to your tractor for it to work properly. They are very handy for all kinds of lifting as well as loading applications.

Pick a diesel machine. Maybe this is obvious, just wanted to put it out there. I have had less fuel issues with diesel engines than gasoline engines.

Lastly, find someone who already has a tractor and give it a try. There are many configurations from transmissions to 4WD to cabs and operator decks/platforms. You may really prefer one over the other, so putting a little time behind the controls will help you make a better decision.

 

[greenerdreams]

I may have a little different opinion. Been a landscape contractor for over 20 years, have tons of hours on machines. Over the years I have realized that although traditional FEL 4wd tractors with 3 point attachments are great for a one thing does all ok type machine they don't do anything very efficiently. A skidsteer, specifically a tracked skidsteer for your hilly situation would work well. You can buy any attachment ever dreamed of and some you would never have thought of. They will go anywhere even hills although you do have to learn that there is some danger(mainly learning that going up hills often means backwards. Most attachements are hydraulic and far more powerful than three point. I do agree that more than one machine usually is the way to total efficiency. I have owned a few dozers, but they are a breakdown waiting to happen. For my own property i have a midsized mini excavator with hyd thumb and a skidsteer with hydraulic mower, trencher and hyd grapple. I can do anything i need very quickly. I do also have a zero turn exmark sit down mower than is very fast and fun for all finish mowing but the skidsteer hyd mower will go through anything from huge blackberry thickets to saplings and eliminate the need to dispose of any debris.

BTW, no need to buy new. Most machines nowaday will run thousands of hours. Find some good namebrand lowish hour machines and they will probably last you a lifetime(or until your green eyes start to envy the next model up).

 

[JWR]

Yes, you will get a lot of opinions here ! To my mind we know very few things about your property: There are 5 or 6 acres of meadows and the rest wooded, plus a lot of old unkempt logging roads, some of which you wish to open up. Long driveway 3/4 mile. Great but that is not much to go on. Your inexperience is noted. How old are you and what is your long term intent for the property? Raise animals? Sell timber? Retire and enjoy it ? Living there year-round or seasonal or just second-home ? [Answering all those will help folks give you much better advice!] At minimum it seems you wish to clean it up vegetation-wise.

Most of the 47 posts so far are good advice with 3 or 4 bad advice & at least some with no basis in your situation.
1) First -- do not even consider a 2WD tractor. A 2wd is a stuck machine. No excuse for buying one. Unless you plan to mow a lot of grass with it, I suggest a std trans rather than an HST hydrostatic type.
2) There is no justification seen/heard for a tracked machine. Nor a specialized steep mowing design machine. Nor a skid steer. Certainly not for starting out.
3) You will not go wrong with a medium sized 4wd utility tractor like a JD 4610, 4700 or similar. MF 2615, Kubota 35 to 45 HP, New Holland Boomer or TC series something in the 40-45 HP range. DEALER MATTERS! Find a good dealer nearest you. Over the next few years you will need to converse with a dealer.
4) If Kubota, you will need rear wheel spacers. Recommend 6" each side. Rear wheel spacing is the main anti-tipover factor of all. Many of the above tractors have adjustable rear wheel spacing but Kubota fails this in general -- yet I love the Kubotas for design and reliability.
5) The meadows? Mow for hay ? (sell it or give it to nearby farmer!) Otherwise bush hog it to maintain it.
6) You WILL want a bush hog. Suggest 6ft. Deere MX6 is good, so are many others. Bush Hog brand is hard to beat. I like Kodiak too but a little high.
7) Most/all these tractors can just as well be had used with low hours (under 500) and the bugs already solved. They hold value well as others said. Trade up later to something bigger if needed or not and get your experience now. On the other hand, IF YOU FIND a solid, expierienced dealer nearby with decent reputation and he offers a "good deal" that could be an excellent starting point for so manyh reasons -- the dealer relationship, making infant mortality fixes, guarantee work, advice ! etc.
8) Given description so far, you will want a front end loader for sure. I strongly recommend a "skid steer compatible" adapter or native mode available on all brands. Otherwise you are stuck with one-brand attachments and very limited options. Get both a bucket and a grapple to pick up brush, limbs, pieces of dead trees, etc. You will almost certainly use it ALL the time. That means you need a "3rd function" for the loader (e.g. an extra hydraulic line set to the front for control of the grapple open/closing and other future things.) That means the tractor needs at least one "remote" or aux set of hydraulics connections for controlling attachments, etc. Being new to this, I suggest getting that dealer you are making friends with to install it.
9) Find a welding shop that does a little fabrication work near you or within 1/2hr. You WILL need them for many minor things unless you do some welding already.
10) As long as the logging roads and unused paths are not too steep (left/right) you will be able to chew away at cleaning them using the 4wd tractor, FEL and grapple hook over time, assuming you use a chain saw when the downed trees are too big to pick up and move.
11) Finally -- that LONG driveway. I assume it is 'dirt road' or gravel probably. In Western NC there will be times when you need to clear snow enough to get in/out. Your FEL bucket,while not ideal, will suffice probably. A rear grader blade 6 or 7 feet wide is inexpensive and probably a very good tool for you long-term with that much road. Snow or ruts or gravel, whatever -- the grader blade will be usefull.

Good luck -- the more info you can provide the more the folks on here can help you.

 

[Tbone07]

For the most part.....nobody ever complained after getting a tractor too large or too powerful. Go one step up from what you think you need.

The density of your forested section could play a part in how small/large of a tractor you want. My property is largely hardwoods where our TC40 is just the right size. But I wish we went with a TC55 for the extra HP and loader capacity. As far as the hills go? There are some sections on our property I'd never take a tractor. Just too steep. Take your time, keep the load low and creep up/down inclines. A hydrostatic transmission really helps with descending steep inclines.

I clean up after a lot of logging on our property. A grapple bucket is an absolute must-have. If I were starting from scratch again, it would be the first implement I would purchase for logging cleanup. Box blade and grading blade get tons of work for trail grading and snow removal.

 

[mudking]

Compact tractors are expensive because that's where a whole lot of the market demand is: ...Because most (especially new) tractor owners don't have anywhere near 105 acres to run a tractor on. My advice is buy used and buy large. You'll have time to study up because, as you noted, the new and used tractor market is pretty crazy now. I think you want a used 75hp+ ag tractor with MFD, (4wd, whatever you want to call it), not just for loader work but because it becomes a safety necessity on slopes, both up and down.

My other (utility and larger) used-tractor shopping advice to take FWIW: If you look at Deere, make sure the 1-4 gears are synchronized (some aren't and that's not good unless all you're going to do is field tillage), If you look at used Massey Ferguson make sure you understand exactly how the PTO works on the exact tractor you're looking at (they have two different versions of "independent PTO" and two different versions of "two-stage clutch", and manufacturers, salespeople and seeming everybody else uses variable jargon). Also: ...and I'm going to make some people mad, but I'd avoid Kubota on sloped terrain. Kubotas are finely engineered and reliable, but they are comparatively light weight, and while that may be a real plus for not tearing up yards, it's a roll-over hazard on slopes.

TractorData.com is a tool you'll want to become familiar with if you haven't already. Best to you, be safe, have fun!

 

[Hermio]

Hey all,

Last year, we purchased 105 acres in the mountains of Western North Carolina that are mostly wooded with about 6 acres of meadows in hollows and plenty of overgrown old logging roads that we'd like to reclaim. The prior owners quit maintaining everything a few years ago except for the lawn around the house and the driveway.

The main driveway is about a 3/4 mile and is useable for now. The other trails and meadows are overgrown and need a lot of work to get back to usable condition. In addition to cleanup, there seems to always be something on the property that needs done (trees, brush, etc).

Our original intent was to hire out local professionals to support the maintenance, but it is clearly cost prohibitive considering the ongoing work required. I'm capable of learning, but an I am admitted "city slicker" with no experience with tractors.

I'm looking for advice!

I tried local dealers with experience in the area, however nothing is in stock. I've found a 2038r in North Florida for what I consider an acceptable deal in these current times. However, the advice from dealer seems limited to their experience in tropical temps and flat ground use. For example: I was told that extra ballast isn't required except for filling up the tires with water (only water). Wheel spacers are not beneficial. I'm not knocking them, because they know their stuff.. just not familiar with the terrain of another area.

So I'm seeking out some advice and support from the forums. My first and major concern is safety with regards to tipping/rolling the tractor in the mountains.

1. My inclinometer has 13 degrees vertical as the max of our main roads on the property and that's just the driveways. I'm very concerned about tipping the tractor and wanting to configure it in the safest way for the mountains.

2. I was going to start with box blade, forks and bush-hog, (and ballast) and wait until determining if I need other equipment. Looking for input on if the standard frontier implements BB2060, RC2060 is adequate.

3. What comparative models would you recommend from Kubota, Massey etc..

4. What advice would you give to someone who is using their equipment higher in the mountains? I would probably use a Zero turn for the lawn grass. Tractor is truly for utility.



Thanks everyone!

A few tips from my own experience with a tree farm in Ohio.
1) 4WD is pretty essential working in the woods
2) Get a hydrostatic transmission (HST). A gear drive can flip over when hitting an obstacle, faster than you can react by depressing a clutch pedal. Also, if a branch hits you in the face or something tries to impale you, releasing the pedal will stop the tractor.
3) You probably should get at least 25 Hp to run a 5' bush hog for clearing trails. I happen to use 50 Hp (Mahindra 5035HST). Some use larger tractors, but maneuverability suffers as you get larger. For me, a large CUT seems ideal.
4) Farm tractors are easily damaged in the woods. A full forestry package is ideal but expensive. As a minimum, you should get belly protection to keep hydraulic lines, filter, etc. from damage. ROPS is mandatory. FOPS would be a good idea too. A cab is nice, but is not quite equivalent to FOPS.
5) Tree branches will try to remove any external lights on the tractor. I have not come up with a good solution for that, other than trying to watch out.
6) Likewise, an exhaust pipe that sticks up above the tractor will get broken off sooner or later. It may end up hitting you in the face. Get a model that exhausts to the side or bottom. My front end loader protects my pipe pretty well.
7) Front end loader is also essential. I have a clamshell bucket. I think a tine grapple bucket would be more useful.
8) Try to find a way to fit some logging equipment in a safe holder on your tractor. I mount my saw on a scabbard attached to my loader uprights.
9) Speaking of logging, it is one of the most dangerous jobs in the world. At a minimum, watch some you-tube training videos and some extension service documents on small scale logging.
10) In terms of brand, you can't go wrong with Kubota. I have had a Kubota in the past. I chose Mahindra this time because it was almost 1500 lb heavier than the 50 Hp Kubota models, and has larger tires and a beefier axle, so it is more suitable for dragging logs. For mowing, however, the extra weight means higher fuel consumption. Figure out what your main jobs will be for the tractor. I also ballasted my rear tires with the beet juice formula, which added another 2600 lb. The larger tires hold more fluid.
11) 13 degrees is no problem for going straight up or down. I would stay below 20 degrees on side slopes. If you get a loader, keep it low to the ground, especially when traversing slopes. Keep your ROPS in good repair, and wear that seat belt!

 

[dman99004]

Once you get your tractor be sure to familiarize yourself with construction techniques needed to build and maintain those access roads on the slopes. Anything over 20 degrees can be really hazardous. Take a look at the link for some basic ideas on what it takes to build a relatively safe road. CHAPTER 6 ROAD CONSTRUCTION TECHNIQUES

 

[boozle]

@dman99004 Thanks for this. I measured and the largest vertical was about 13 degrees + up to 3 or 4 degrees horizontal. Someone mentioned the equipment that was used for those original logging roads was pretty big. That doc is great information

 

[boozle]

Are you from CA, NJ, IL or NY? It has to be one of those four because it seems like everyone I've met in North Carolina in the last 6 months is from those ******* states and has way to much money to waste for NC's low cost of living.
And let me guess, you moved to the West Asheville area because it's the most liberal place in NC like the place you just left to get away from those **** policies. Prove me wrong. Pllleeease.

Oh, welcome to North Carolina & TBN.

Lol. No. You assume too much because I'm from the place that you dislike far than those 4 you listed: Florida.

Thanks for the welcome

 

[boozle]

A few tips from my own experience with a tree farm in Ohio.
1) 4WD is pretty essential working in the woods

2) Get a hydrostatic transmission (HST). A gear drive can flip over when hitting an obstacle, faster than you can react by depressing a clutch pedal. Also, if a branch hits you in the face or something tries to impale you, releasing the pedal will stop the tractor

3) You probably should get at least 25 Hp to run a 5' bush hog for clearing trails. I happen to use 50 Hp (Mahindra 5035HST). Some use larger tractors, but maneuverability suffers as you get larger. For me, a large CUT seems ideal.
4) Farm tractors are easily damaged in the woods. A full forestry package is ideal but expensive. As a minimum, you should get belly protection to keep hydraulic lines, filter, etc. from damage. ROPS is mandatory. FOPS would be a good idea too. A cab is nice, but is not quite equivalent to FOPS.
5) Tree branches will try to remove any external lights on the tractor. I have not come up with a good solution for that, other than trying to watch out.
6) Likewise, an exhaust pipe that sticks up above the tractor will get broken off sooner or later. It may end up hitting you in the face. Get a model that exhausts to the side or bottom. My front end loader protects my pipe pretty well.
7) Front end loader is also essential. I have a clamshell bucket. I think a tine grapple bucket would be more useful.
8) Try to find a way to fit some logging equipment in a safe holder on your tractor. I mount my saw on a scabbard attached to my loader uprights.
9) Speaking of logging, it is one of the most dangerous jobs in the world. At a minimum, watch some you-tube training videos and some extension service documents on small scale logging.
10) In terms of brand, you can't go wrong with Kubota. I have had a Kubota in the past. I chose Mahindra this time because it was almost 1500 lb heavier than the 50 Hp Kubota models, and has larger tires and a beefier axle, so it is more suitable for dragging logs. For mowing, however, the extra weight means higher fuel consumption. Figure out what your main jobs will be for the tractor. I also ballasted my rear tires with the beet juice formula, which added another 2600 lb. The larger tires hold more fluid.
11) 13 degrees is no problem for going straight up or down. I would stay below 20 degrees on side slopes. If you get a loader, keep it low to the ground, especially when traversing slopes. Keep your ROPS in good repair, and wear that seat belt!

Thank you!