Protect me from myself, please

   / Protect me from myself, please #1  

johnday

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2003
Messages
1,400
Location
monroe michigan, barton city soon
Tractor
NH TC 35 had, now a TC35DA LS25 lawnmower
Does anyone remember the days before bicycle helmets, knee/arm pads, and even seatbelts, and transmission nuetral start switches. I mean to start this thread as humor, but the serious side can kick in as well /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Just how did we survive in those darkages. Common sense maybe? /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
 
   / Protect me from myself, please #2  
We survived on common sense (no drugs) or lawyers !!
 
   / Protect me from myself, please #3  
"Just how did we survive in those darkages. Common sense maybe?"

A lot of folks have common sense...problem is those folks who think they know how we should live our lives better then we do. Unfortunately, they gravitate toward government.

People accepted the accidents do happen and folks get killed or injured. Fact of life...and, always a tragedy, especially if it's a child.
The question is...how much freedom of action do you give up for safety and security? In PA, motorcyclists had to wear helmets for years...mandatory. Well, being and area that is big into Harley Davidsons (bulid 'em in York, PA), there was a considerable number of folks that did not want to wear the helmets. There were enough that, after years of work, the helmet law was repealed.
I support that repeal 100%. I wouldn't ride a motorcycle without one, but that'll be my choice...not some fool in government.

There's a TBN thread going on now (forgot the forum) where a new owner was being chastized for taking his 3 year old boy for a ride. Those folks chastizing the poster have a good point...there's one seat on these tractors for a reason. If the boy fell under the wheels of that tractor, he'd probably be killed That's the risk... But, when that boy is looking at that new tractor and says "Daddy, take me for a ride.....", it's tough to turn 'em down..isn't it? Fortunately, I'm not in that position, but if I was...I reckon I'd take the boy for a ride. Common sense says "Now Way!" of course. But as long as I know the risk and take appropriate action to reduce that risk...then it's my decision and responsibility. And, I wouldn't go suing the tractor manufacturer because I made a bad decision....

Of course, then we get into a lot of other laws...the Supreme Court is reviewing challenges to drug laws (medical marijuanna).

Tough choices...but for freedom, one must accept the responsibility of one's actions.

And, of course, when you have as many lawyers in this country as we do....it's tough to maintain common sense.
 
   / Protect me from myself, please #4  
John,
I am sure the reason was that we took responsibility for what we did, unlike now. Now, no one is responsibility for what they do. It is always someone else’s fault.
 
   / Protect me from myself, please #5  
My sister and I never sat in a "car seat". "Don't make me stop this car" was good enough to keep us in line. Come to think about it, the ole 49 Ford didn't have seat belts to hold a car seat /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif.
 
   / Protect me from myself, please #6  
<font color="blue">"Don't make me stop this car" </font>
Heard that before. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
   / Protect me from myself, please
  • Thread Starter
#7  
Roy; Your sentiments about the bike helmet law are exactly mine, I don't need or want a law like that. Here in Michigan, at one time at least, on bikes below a certain size, only people under 18 had to wear a helmet. I suppose you could also read that to mean that peoples heads over 18 were different?.

I believe Jerry made the comment about responsibility and not accepting it for yourself and relating it to lawsuits. Good way to make money I guess. There are truly cases where someone does deserve to be sued, but I hardly think it's as common as some think. I wonder in some of those cases, were the injuries and such actually self inflicted? I suspect some of them are, especially when the one to benefit monetarily were not the ones actually injured. A theoretical example, someone knows there is a problem with a machine of some sort that causes an injury to say, someone in their own family. They allow the person to use that machine, results are the injury or loss of life or limb, then capitalize on it with a good lawyer that they lie to, or a bad lawyer that helps them lie.

On another note, there has been safety devices and such that have saved people. But on the same token, there are a lot of them that ae just money makers and really not needed.
I remember under a certain president during the '90's, OSHA passed laws that appeared to be written by people that had not a clue. Some of them, like fall arrest in some cases, actually contributed to injuries.

I just can't wait to get some seat time and have to dress in a beekeepers suit, or even some type of antilightning, antiplanecrash, antityphoon type of suit, just in case , ya know? /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
 
   / Protect me from myself, please #8  
I'll present the other side of the issue... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Most, if not all, insurance (life and health anyway) is experience rated based upon the risk pool you're in. All the factors you might think of, e.g., age, health, etc. come into the equation that determines the premium for everyone in that risk pool. The underlying assumption is that everyone in the risk pool has the same probability of getting sick or dying.

Well, what happens to the premiums if some members of that risk pool engage in behavior that increases the odds (increases them above the odds of the risk pool in general) of them getting sick or dying? The premiums go up.

To put it on a more personal level, imagine you work in a small company of 10 people. Everyone is in their mid-30s, good health, married, and do not engage in any risky activities. These same 10 people actually own the company and they request quotes for group life insurance. They will get one rate. Now, 4 of these 10 people decide to buy motorcycles and ride them without helmets. What do you think happens to the life insurance premium charged for that group policy? Every one of the 10 people in that group will see their premiums rise because four of them decided to engage in risky behavior. My guess is that while their life insurance rates would rise, their health insurance rates might fall because riding without a helmet increases the odds you will be killed in an accident hence reducing the odds of large medical bills.

While this is a simplistic example, my point is, with most insurance policies, a risk assumed by a few, is a risk assumed by all.

People who ride without helmets (to continue with this one example of risky behavior) act as if their decision, and the potential consequences of this decision, will only affect them. Or, if they get turned into 'road pizza', only affect them and their loved ones. This isn't the case, others far beyond the immediate family can be affected. If your actions can affect me, financially effect me in particular, then I get a say in how you act. While the effects might be more extensive today, this has always been true. Every one of the settlers in Jamestown, VA had to stand watch. If some of them didn't, the risk they assumed was assumed by all.

Note: I am not saying current laws have not swung too far toward over regulation. I am simply describing at least one other viewpoint to the 'it's my life and my business' perspective.

No man is an island, entire of itself
every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main
if a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were,
as well as if a manor of thy friends or of thine own were
any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind
and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls
it tolls for thee. -- John Donne
 
   / Protect me from myself, please #9  
I notice that when talking about many of these things, even in some of the responses here, that people talk about "saving lives." May I respectfully ask for evidence to show one single life that has ever been saved? Temporarily prolonged, maybe, but the first person whose life has been saved will be the first person to be immortal. I'm certain there have been people who fell from a bicycle one day, and didn't die because they were wearing a helmet, who were hit by a truck and killed the next day. The point being, there is simply no way to eliminate the inveitable.

Further, I'm confused by our priorities. We do things like putting neutral safety locks on transmissions, which maybe prolongs two or three lives per year, then send the same cars out to play in traffic, which kills something like more than 50,000 people per year (too lazy to look up the actual number, but it's like having 15 or 20 9-11's every year). People get enraged over having a kid on your lap on your tractor; why aren't they enraged over traffic fatalities?
 
   / Protect me from myself, please #10  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Just how did we survive in those darkages. )</font>

We survived. Some folks didn't. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

My father-in-law always went off on a rant when we showed up at a family gathering with our weeks-old baby secured by a 5-point harness in a rear-facing infant seat in the back seat of the car. He would tell my wife, "We just carried you on our laps, in the front seat, and we didn't even have seat belts!"

Yeah, Pops, and we're just glad she's still around to hear you talk about it. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Things have definitely gone litigious these days, and my 7 year old boy still gripes when I insist he wear a helmet when riding his bike or scooter, or when he's roller-blading. I just think of it as tough love 'cuz I remember a fella I knew in high school who died when he was forced (by a teenage car driver) to swerve his bike into a parked car. Even a cheap helmet would have save him, but it wasn't the fashion back then. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Kids will always get scrapes and bruises -- it's part of growing up. And we might be getting a little fanatic here and there, but I think some things, like helmets and baby seats are worthwhile insurance. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 

Tractor & Equipment Auctions

UNUSED FUTURE VR59 59" VIBRATORY ROLLER (A51248)
UNUSED FUTURE VR59...
2007 JLG 600S SKYPOWER TELESCOPIC MANLIFT (A51246)
2007 JLG 600S...
2015 Hooper T/A Trailer w/Mounted Foaming System (A53117)
2015 Hooper T/A...
CFG Industrial SAII100 (A50123)
CFG Industrial...
Ford F550 Dump Truck (A47384)
Ford F550 Dump...
(3) UNUSED MR HEATER PORTABLE PROPANE AIR HEATER (A51247)
(3) UNUSED MR...
 
Top