PT AL-629 ( can it be done ? )

   / PT AL-629 ( can it be done ? ) #11  
I posted a similar idea with a different approach some time ago; make a powered trailer with two wheel motors that would be similar to the 'tub' of the PT with disconnects tied into the wheel motor circuits.

The idea is to have a heavily loaded small trailer help move itself rather than the struggle I sometimes have on steep slopes in our area.

Might try that this fall $$$ permitting.

Mark H.
 
   / PT AL-629 ( can it be done ? ) #12  
I plan on connecting my four existing wheel motors in series.

There shouldn't be an inherent problem with circuits in series -- because you have two circuits (of two wheel motors each) in series today. Fluid will go to the place of least resistance, regardless of where that is...

Now, how well my wheel motors will hold up to twice the pressure is a totally different story, especially since I've committed the unpardonable sin of reversing my wheels... :eek:
 
   / PT AL-629 ( can it be done ? ) #13  
Beechwood said:
Woodlandfarms, Did you mean to say 3K Uninstalled ? I hope so.


I think it was 30K for 4 units... For a pickup mod.... We were going to do a TV commercial and wanted something fun in the back ground...

I found this article giving it a 4.5K cost for ATV sizes.

Make Tracks


Ahhhh, here is a note on costs for a 100HP tractor option.. It was similar to the truck sizes...

The manufacturer's suggested retail price for Mattracks Track-Tor Assist is just less than $36,000. Contact Mattracks Inc., Dept. FIN, 202 Cleveland Ave. E., Karlstad, MN 56732-0214, 218/436-7000, visit MATTRACKS rubber track conversion systems - all-terrain rubber tracks for 4X4 vehicles. or www.freeproductinfo.net/fin, or circle

Ka Ching....
 
   / PT AL-629 ( can it be done ? ) #14  
KentT said:
I plan on connecting my four existing wheel motors in series.

There shouldn't be an inherent problem with circuits in series -- because you have two circuits (of two wheel motors each) in series today. Fluid will go to the place of least resistance, regardless of where that is...

Now, how well my wheel motors will hold up to twice the pressure is a totally different story, especially since I've committed the unpardonable sin of reversing my wheels... :eek:

The wheel motors will only have as much pressure as the hydraulic pump will put out. The pressure will remain the same. It will not double.
 
   / PT AL-629 ( can it be done ? ) #15  
J_J said:
The wheel motors will only have as much pressure as the hydraulic pump will put out. The pressure will remain the same. It will not double.

The pressure will remain the same -- at the wheel motors -- only if there are bypass valves set to keep the pressure the same... otherwise, it will theoretically double as the volume is reduced in half. Again, this is at the wheel motor, not at the pump...
 
   / PT AL-629 ( can it be done ? )
  • Thread Starter
#16  
KentT said:
The pressure will remain the same -- at the wheel motors -- only if there are bypass valves set to keep the pressure the same... otherwise, it will theoretically double as the volume is reduced in half. Again, this is at the wheel motor, not at the pump...

Kent, If I add two new wheel motors all I would do is take the output side of the oem motor and tie it into the input side of the new motor then take the oem return line and tie it into the output side of the new motor, creating a closed loop system like the original configuration. Once the new system is recharged and equilized then all pressure will be the same . As JJ said the pump is only going to put out so much pressure regardless of how many motors you have. But the pump output pressure might have to be reset( increased ) for the extra motors. Correct?
 
   / PT AL-629 ( can it be done ? ) #17  
Beechwood said:
IDEA:
Turn a 180, 422, or 425 into a 6 wheel drive ( configured like a GATOR 6x4 ) by extending the tub approx 20" and re-powering the PT with a 29 HP Kawasaki water cooled fuel injected engine and adding two more wheel motors the same size as the OEM motors on the 180, 422 or 425.
I have to ask what the objective is with this modification. If it is to build a 6 wheel articulating tractor then just skip my comments. However, if the objective is get a tractor that will do more work than a stock 180, 422, or 425 then it seems to me that you need to start out by defining what additional capabilities you are seeking. Once you know the capabilities I would be inclined to look at other models in the PT line up such as the 1430 which is a 30 hp diesel, or the 1845 which is 45 hp and has 8 wheels for slope capability (and high flotation as a side benefit) and compare how the cost and capabilities of these models compare to what you are seeking. You may well find that the cost benefit characteristics of an existing PT model are better than going the modification route.
 
   / PT AL-629 ( can it be done ? ) #18  
Beechwood said:
Kent, If I add two new wheel motors all I would do is take the output side of the oem motor and tie it into the input side of the new motor then take the oem return line and tie it into the output side of the new motor, creating a closed loop system like the original configuration. Once the new system is recharged and equilized then all pressure will be the same . As JJ said the pump is only going to put out so much pressure regardless of how many motors you have. But the pump output pressure might have to be reset( increased ) for the extra motors. Correct?

Beechwood, I was talking about my planned mod to my PT-425, which is actually described back in the archives here as Stray's mod. Stray started down the path of designing a two-speed implementation, based simply on routing the hydraulic circuits and using valves to switch between the two different circuits. He began work on a test configuration that would be a permanent low-speed system. That is what I plan on doing -- converting my system to low-speed, high-torque by changing the plumbing from two parallel circuits (each with two motors on it, in series) to 4 parallel circuits with each motor on its own circuit. (Note that PT at one time offered a two-speed setup, according to some posters here...)

With your proposal, if you plumb it the way that you describe, it will still have only two parallel circuits with now 3 wheel motors in series on each circuit. There would theoretically be no increase in torque, and no decrease in speed other than the added resistance of the extra plumbing. The pressure would remain essentially the same (though the resistance of the extra plumbing might increase it by a small, inconsequential amount).

The best way for me to understand hydraulic systems is by using the analogy of a DC electrical circuit, which I do understand, where voltage = hydraulic pressure and amperage = volume of fluid. If you change from a parallel to a series circuit, you double the amperage but cut the voltage in half, and vice versa... The same thing happens in a hydraulic system -- changing from series to parallel circuit increases the pressure and decreases the volume.

It's much easier to mentally picture if you consider the drive pump a fixed displacement pump, instead of variable. That way, you can mentally picture the pump as being a "constant" in the circuit at any given RPM...

dcx6.gif


In this DC circuit example, consider the resistors (R1 and R2) as wheel motors. You currently have two separate circuits of two wheel motors in series. I'm planning to convert to 4 parallel circuits, with each supply and return line coming back to separate 4:1 manifolds at the pump.
 
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   / PT AL-629 ( can it be done ? )
  • Thread Starter
#19  
Bob999 said:
I have to ask what the objective is with this modification. If it is to build a 6 wheel articulating tractor then just skip my comments. However, if the objective is get a tractor that will do more work than a stock 180, 422, or 425 then it seems to me that you need to start out by defining what additional capabilities you are seeking. Once you know the capabilities I would be inclined to look at other models in the PT line up such as the 1430 which is a 30 hp diesel, or the 1845 which is 45 hp and has 8 wheels for slope capability (and high flotation as a side benefit) and compare how the cost and capabilities of these models compare to what you are seeking. You may well find that the cost benefit characteristics of an existing PT model are better than going the modification route.

When I bought my 180 in 04 I paid Approx. $5400.00. At the time I was looking for a basic machine to use in my remodeling business, but at the same time I knew I would be doing some modifications to the 180 as I needed them. (example- building the mini hoe ). I needed a small machine that would fit into tight spots with estabished landscaping. If I decide to go ahead with this idea (about a $3000.00 investment ) I will end up with a more powerful and useful machine.for less then the cost of a new 425 and still maintain a small machine footprint, but with that being said if I could have afforded the 425 to begin with I would have gone that route, plus I enjoy tinkering with things as a hobby. Some people buy $50,000.00 boats for a fishing hobby. :D
 
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   / PT AL-629 ( can it be done ? ) #20  
Beechwood, the nice thing about a hobby is you don't have to justify it.
I think the extra wheels and motors will add no torque as discussed above. It will help if wheels slip and give you more surface area. According to a conversation with PT tech support the relief valves on the motors are set very high and don't nomally trip, so adjusting them will not buy you much.
 

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