PT1445 Stuck again

[J_J]

PT1445Farmer,

Can you explain further about the fluid spraying out of the tank area. If you saw some spray, then it was under pressure. Did you ever find the source of the fluid.

It still ticks me off every time anyone has some trouble with their machine, that no one has a decent operation, or trouble shooting manual , probably not even a parts manual. We can all blame this on PT Executives for NOT providing us with what should be a part of the purchase. We should all join in on a class action suit to get a decent operations manual with hydraulic circuit diagrams, electrical diagrams, with pictures, etc, from day one of production.

 

[ldabe]

PT1445Farmer,

Can you explain further about the fluid spraying out of the tank area. If you saw some spray, then it was under pressure. Did you ever find the source of the fluid.

It still ticks me off every time anyone has some trouble with their machine, that no one has a decent operation, or trouble shooting manual , probably not even a parts manual. We can all blame this on PT Executives for NOT providing us with what should be a part of the purchase. We should all join in on a class action suit to get a decent operations manual with hydraulic circuit diagrams, electrical diagrams, with pictures, etc, from day one of production.

I'm in JJ! Point in the direction to place my John Hancock.

 

[Gravy]

I'll give a dissenting opinion here. This is based on my 10 years experience working in PT's home region. This is purely opinion.

I agree that it sucks that PT doesn't provide useful documentation with the machines. However, I suspect that suing them over the issue would only make things worse. In this economy, it might well drive them into bankruptcy. I don't think any of us would benefit from that.

From PT's standpoint, paying somebody to spend the many many hours required to research and write legally correct manuals for all of their products is likely cost prohibitive.

I will reiterate an impression I have previously tried to express - PT's are not a finely developed and fully supported commercial product. A PT is more like a product of of your crazy genius redneck uncle Fred - he done built it, and it works pretty well, but even he don't really know why...

If Cat or Bobcat or one of the European manufacturers offered a PT425, it would come with DVD's and a 24 hour tech support line answered by somebody in India, and at least 6 more safety interlock switches. And a microprocessor or three. It would also likely cost upwards of $30,000.

In contrast, PT's are a byproduct of the American coal mining industry. This is not an industry built on liability torts and EU safety standards. It's more about getting the job done with the materials at hand, and an acceptance of more risk than the average American is accustomed to.

I think of a PT as kind of a kit machine. They assume that the machines are simple enough and the buyers are smart enough that we can figure them out.

We can't sue good manuals into existence. PT isn't going to hire technical writers to put Terry's knowledge into print. Terry will continue to try to help us while remaining loyal to the company. If we try to force compliance with commercial tractor industry standards, the most likely outcome is that the powers that be at PT will decide that it's no longer profitable to to continue to operate.

I don't see that as working out well for any of us. I think PT should do better at technical support and manuals. I think we should encourage that and ***** about it. But I also think we should be appreciative that PT goes out on the limb to provide these weird machines that work for us where the standard machines don't.

Gravy

 

[toy]

I think they are a pretty simple machine myself. I probably can't do all the repairs that may be needed on it sometime in the future, but I don't know that for sure. I believe that many of us that have bought the pts have learned skills that maybe they wouldn't have with one of the more complicated machines on the market today. I believe a person could start at the pumps and follow the hoses to where they go and map out a pretty good idea of a problem that might occur in the future if they record these hose locations. If you have a hose that does burst try to get the same length hose and reroute it in the same path that the busted hose ran in. If you do have a problem try to stay calm and think simple before you start thinking complicated, many of the problems that may arise are simple and when we get it figured out and fix it we get a feeling of satisfaction. I really like my pt, I know it has some short comings but I also know that it has a lot of things that make it stand out that over powers it's short comings for the needs that I have. When I first got my machine it had numbers on the ends of the hoses that I believe if I had wrote where say #6 hose started and where it ended I would have had a good diagram of it but I didn't and that is a regret of mine.

 

[Bob999]

I'll give a dissenting opinion here. This is based on my 10 years experience working in PT's home region. This is purely opinion.

I agree that it sucks that PT doesn't provide useful documentation with the machines.

I agree. However, I purchased the machine knowing the limited documentation provided with the machine. There was never a representation to the contrary. For that reason alone I see no basis for seeking redress for the shorcomings in the documentation.

It seems to me that the appropriate course of action for those who want complete documentation is to buy a machine that comes with the desired documentation.

 

[MossRoad]

The machines are what they are. Crude and simple. They work and they break. We fix 'em. Then they work again. I don't need no stinkin' manual to show me a welded heavy steel box with holes cut in it is a tractor body. And a tire is a tire and a hose is a hose. A pump is a pump and an engine is an engine. I don't do hydraulic pump repair so I don't need a manual for that. I do my own engine work, so I bought some books on that, but really, only for the engine specs, as the theory of operation is pretty much the same as the lawnmower engine I rebuilt with my dad when I was 10 years old. Anyone that did any research into these machines before purchase should have known what they were getting themselves into. That's just my opinion. I love my machine. It does what I bought it to do and then some. Would I buy another one? Maybe. I do not like the reports from newer owners regarding cold weather starting problems. That would be my only hesitation.

 

[J_J]

With all due respect, I think some of you are cutting PT to much slack, for whatever reason. This is a one store operation for the PT product, and since we can not drive up the street and look at a schematic, or take a part in to compare. I am talking world wide, although I don't see many overseas sales. Looking at warranty work. Sure they will replace parts, but you are expected to fix it yourself. Most people do not buy things thinking that they will have to fix it themselves. There is absolutely no excuse for not having a shop manual that covers the PT products from front to back, leaving nothing out. I think it is very wrong to give them a free ride. They are hoping that you don't raise many concerns about the lack of documentation. As far as fixing the machine, most anybody with good common sense, can probably repair anything on the PT except maybe the tram pump. Some people get these machines because they just like what they can do. They have to rely on other people to fix or help with fixing. I think it is sad that the one guy at PT is the only one that can answer technical questions, except for the PT owner/opeerators that have fixed their machine by trial and error. You would think that PT would at least leave the manufacture name and part number on the pumps and motors,etc, but no, they want you to only purchase from them, and then you have to have a min order of at least $50. I guess they don't realize that we can determine the cu in required, and the HP required to drive a certain attachment, and the shaft and hose particulars, and find replacement parts that are better and cheaper. Whenever you guys call PT about something, you should ask for hydraulic schematics, electrical diagrams, etc. Of course they will snicker and laugh, and say we are working on it, maybe next year. I did get them to email me a page out of the parts manual once. Is there any three of you that have the same machine, with same hydraulic setup, etc? Even with things like test ports in key locations, would be a big help in trouble shooting.
Some of you think it is a big deal to produce manuals. We did this kind of work in the Navy, developing lesson guides, with pictures, slides, etc. including theory of operations, and troubleshooting procedures, etc. I don't even want to hear, well, why don't you volunteer to work up a set of manuals. It could probably be done in 3 to 6 mo given free access to all the machines, and be able to copy/extract Terry,s knowledge base. Not only the machines, but the attachments as well.

You guys should realize, that this is the only knowledge base in the world for the PT.

Just for instance, my Case skidsteer manual is about 4 in thick, and covers just about everything, from front to back, with serial numbers group breakdowns, etc.

Enough ranting, just chime in if you want to.

 

[KentT]

JJ,

Ever thought that your perspective may be influenced by the fact that you have a quite old, one-off machine, that likely no one knows a whole lot about -- because they weren't in production long enough to have a track record?

I'd certainly appreciate a more detailed owner's manual, and the commercial specs/part numbers for the components, but I agree with Gravy and Bob999. (a) We're likely not going to get more documentation than we have, and (b) I knew that when I bought my machine USED.

Further, though I bought my machine used, Terry and the folks at Tazewell have been just as helpful as if I bought it from them new... I've encountered dealers from the "big names" that didn't want to take the time to look up part numbers for older machines, because they knew you didn't buy it from the them, and likely wouldn't buy a new machine from them...

 

[Marks481]

My PT422 came with a 29 page manual with pictures and (PT) part numbers for every single component. No fluid diagrams; kind of lacking in that department. Pretty sad, since I am sure Terry could draw one up in about 15 minutes. The hydraulic circuit is very basic and simple. No electrical diagram, but then there isn't much of an electrical circuit either (the important parts you can find in the Robin engine manual).

I know it is not 4" thick, but then again there really isn't very much to this vehicle.

It would be poor marketing to provide the end users with commercial OTS part numbers. No different then my Toyota truck; do you think Toyota is going to let me know what parts to buy from aftermarket suppliers? Parts provided after the sale provides a significant source of income. That seems to be a widely accepted policy.

I agree with Mossroad. It is what it is.

 

[J_J]

You guys really want to know why you don't have good documentation on the PT's? It is simply because you didn't insist they provide same. Some of you guys may love your PT, maybe because that is what you have to work with. Although the PT is a useful machine, I use it for it's attributes, and when it won't do the job at hand, I may use the Kubota, or Ford 8N, of Case skidsteer, or whatever. . My PT being old doesn't matter, it still functions quite well, and in fact, it maybe easier to maintain and operate than other newer machines. The parts that I have asked for from PT, were way to high, and what they sent me was the wrong part, but that was what they had on hand. I had to compensate for the lack of tilt, based on the tilt/rollover assembly.

I purchased my 1445 used, and at todays prices, I could not, nor would not purchase a new PT plus attachments. I am talking about $38,100.00 Now, don't get me wrong, it does quite well with the attachments at hand, new or used. The package deal was a good deal for me as I only paid $6500.00. No body and I mean no body should have to spend that much money, and not get a decent operation and parts manual, and a min on parts, just bs. You can cut them slack all you want, and that is the reason that you don't have anything worth while to look out and figure things out. How about the guy that has a PT and no computer, all he can do is talk to Terry.

Can you fix things on the PT, why sure. It is just plain and simple hydraulics. I could probably tear into the tram pump if I had seen it done a couple of times. Every thing else is just common sense.

On the class action suit, it was mainly said in jest, because I know you guys have already accepted what is, and perhaps you just don't care. How about all the other people that would perhaps purchase a PT if they knew they had everything necessary to help fix things. You don't have to know very much if you have a good manual, as you well know. Just what did they tell you guys when you purchased the PT, [ We are the best, it don't break, and you don't need no stinking manual ] Sorry if I hurt anybodies feelings, but that is the way I see things.

I could probably make a manual for myself, because I have taken just about everything apart, and have pictures, except the engine and tram pump, and I have a spare tram pump.

Rant, rant, all I have to do on a rainy Sat afternoon