PTO and clutch problem

[Ranch_Hand_Supp]

Leslie , I think you have two different issues also.

On your hyd fluid level ...... I lower the 3 point lift, loader bucket flat on the ground and fill to the lower mark on the dip stick with it not screwed in.

I recommend you make aure your clutch is adjusted correctly.

The gap between the pressure plate fingers and the release bearing.

The PTO disc gap. This adjustment effects the distance between main disc and PTO engage/release. If the clutch assy is good with proper ajustment the two stage clutch is designed to just as you stated.... push clutch pedal down to stop tractor and run PTO to clear blower.... same thing as mowing, needing to stop, back up etc to keep the blades turning so the engine can keep it rpm's up and not start under load.

Top of Clutch pedal free travel. More less in than order. {3 adjustments]


let us know what you come up with

Ronald
Ranch Hand Supply

 

[JohnS]

Leslie, I agree with others, it is sounding like a clutch or clutch adjustment issue on the grinding. If your lucky, it maybe just how you are holding the clutch pedal (gregs post) and/or a free play adj. If internal, I hope you have a nice heated garage to take the FEL off. The main supports on the FEL cover the access plates that others have talked about.

 

[Soundguy]

The new 200 series Jinmas have a new design tank that I believe is slightly larger capacity. Any incedental overflow is just rust prevention. Most of the older farm tractors I see, leak more hyd fluid in a week, than what a jinma will do in a year.

poorly maintained ones perhaps. my tractos from the 50' don't have any hyd's leaks. I added loaders to my 660 nd 850. Adding the laoder required me to add 2 gallons of fluid to the hyd sump to keep the level above the suction line with all cyls extended, and if on a slight left side angle, if needed.

My later fords from 75' ( bigger boys) and up give the hyds capacity.. most are in 40-46 qt capacity, and can safly have another 13qts added, per manual..

I'd think any tractor that is likely to have a loader.. should have a hyd sump that either has enough capacity to hold the laoders oil, or should have the extra capacity to hold the extra oil when you add the loader... i see LOTS of chinese tractors with loaders...

Sorry guys.. No way to lipstick this issue.. it's a design flaw.... or at least a shortcoming. Sounds like a possible workaround might be a external hyd sump to hold extra oil volume outside the internal sump.. Could probably get away with one of them big 1-g oil filter assemblies, and use that as the extra sump.. etc..

Soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

Now see.. i buy that. It's not that it was a design flaw that i aluded to earlier.. it was an intentional issue. As you mention.. compromise engineering.

I can certaintly understand that. Hard to make an economy unit 'equally ready' for everything, and still be price competitive.

A take it the chinese loaders are a much lower volume?

Do any of the units employ a single dump / curl cyl? if so.. wouldn't that be a way to reduce oil volume?

Soundguy

I think it's safe to assume that this class of tractor - with loader - would not commonly be seen on the Chinese economy. Hasty engineering concessions for export markets probably include loader and backhoe options. Sp a lot of compromise engineering is involved to keep the costs down. Since one helluva lot more Chinese tractors are sold domestically, it sorta explains why they've not yet engineered additional fluid capacities into their export models.

//greg//

 

[thingy]

Yeah you would think this would have been corrected by now,,hoes do have a tank,,some anyways,,,,thingy

 

[bluechip]

Most Chinese tractors use a self container hyd resevoir/lift box that holds 2.5 to 4 gallons of oil. The reason it works on the thousands in the field is because of the use of bi-directional cylinders. Only the volume of the piston rod is displaced, so long as the hydraulic pump is running when the loader is being moved, the oil that is being returned from one side of the cylinder is pumped to the other, a little more or less depending on which side the piston rod is on. If you lower the bucked with the engine off or the pump otherwise not running, as on a KAMA with rear mounted pump, the oil is returned to the tank without pumping to the other side and the level will raise. Also since the lift piston is inside the hydarulic tank, it makes little if any difference where the 3 point is, the oil is either on one side or the other of the piston.

I wouln't consider this a design flaw or compromise engineering, it si more a characteristic of adapting a product originally designed for one use to another.

That said, our new AgTrac tractors use filtered transmission oil for the hydraulics, jsut like some old timers, giving a much larger sump capacity and more room for overflow.

 

[leslie428]

Hi JohnS, my garage is -10 degrees when it is -31 outside, so no, to adjust I will have to wait for warmer weather. Thanks for your help

 

[leslie428]

Thanks to all of you, JohnS, Tommy, Rob, Thingy, Greg, Mark1, Soundguy, Ron, Ronald, and Bluechip.
I checked the Hydraulic fluid level and it was OK. As someone pointed out, I did add oil to the brim when cleaning the strainer and it was bloody cold, -22, so when it heated up and expanded I am certain I lost a bit. I checked for air leak and foaming but everything was OK. The tranny oil is where it should be. I disengaged the PTO and tried the tractor changing gears and double clutching and no noise. When I engaged the PTO I got the same screaming noise of metal to metal grinding. I have for the moment disengaged the PTO and removed the snow blower. I installed my scraper on the back and will use that for snow removal until things get a little warmer. I suspect I will have to install heat in the garage in the future. Once warmer I will remove the Front Loader and take of the inspection plates and see what condition the transmission is in. One of the things I did forget to do was to check for the drain hole before we put on the front loader, could the problem be water build up due to condensation, I seem to remember reading about this somewhere. Again thanks to everyone! I will give you a heads up when I get to the transmission and yes I will take some pictures.

 

[greg_g]

Yeah, there's supposed to be a weep hole on the bottom side of the bellhousing. But you'll not see any transmission parts through those inspection plates. All you'll see in there is the clutch pack and throwout bearing. If even one of those three spring loaded clutch fingers has backed away from the throwout bearing too far, you'll grind the bejeezus outa the PTO gears trying to engage them. On the other hand, if the PTO is engaged when one or more of these fingers backs off - there's a good chance you'll not be able to disengage the PTO.

I'm not saying that's gonna turn out to be your specific problem, but it's something that's gotta be checked as a matter of elimination.

//greg//

 

[leslie428]

Hi Greg, no problem disengaging the PTO, so maybe the damage is not yet done. I will see if I can try adjusting the clutch pedal to see if that is the problem. Right now it works fine with the PTO disengaged, of course the problem is I now have to use the scraper and not the blower for snow removal. Thanks for your help.