PTO generator at max torque or max HP?

[workinonit]

+1

 

[rScotty]

Maybe you saw it, but you didn't agree with it, so you discounted it.

And, it depends on what your definition is, of a "simple" stand alone it...

SR

Probably. But for us this isn't a theoretical discussion. Power outages of 3 or 4 days happen often in these mountains. So I thought to share some thoughts because we have a lot of knowledge dealing with power outages. The reason I prefer a stand alone generator is based on experience.

What I mean by "simple" is that the generator is simply a generator. No other function.
Things that make the Honda's local favorites are how quiet they are and how fuel efficient. They are very sophisticatd. It's remarkable how quiet they are. I can hear it enough to tell it is running, but can hold a normal conversaton while standing next to ours. Outside on the porch, it doesn't make enough noise to hear inside the house.

Downside to the Honda is that they cost twice to three times what the louder generators do. A neighbor has one from Home Depot that you can hear everywhere on his property and inside as well. It also uses several times the fuel that the Honda does.

The arguments in favor of the Tractor PTO don't work for us, because the tractors ares needed to deal with whatever caused the power outage in the first place.
rScotty

 

[can do]

Probably. But for us this isn't a theoretical discussion. Power outages of 3 or 4 days happen often in these mountains. So I thought to share some thoughts because we have a lot of knowledge dealing with power outages. The reason I prefer a stand alone generator is based on experience.

What I mean by "simple" is that the generator is simply a generator. No other function.
Things that make the Honda's local favorites are how quiet they are and how fuel efficient. They are very sophisticatd. It's remarkable how quiet they are. I can hear it enough to tell it is running, but can hold a normal conversaton while standing next to ours. Outside on the porch, it doesn't make enough noise to hear inside the house.

Downside to the Honda is that they cost twice to three times what the louder generators do. A neighbor has one from Home Depot that you can hear everywhere on his property and inside as well. It also uses several times the fuel that the Honda does.

The arguments in favor of the Tractor PTO don't work for us, because the tractors ares needed to deal with whatever caused the power outage in the first place.
rScotty

That's what I ended up going with a portable Generac GP17500E & I didn't want to go this route because it's another engine that I will need to pm every year! That being said the better half told me that I don't want to be using the tractor for that purpose . & this generator will take care of all my needs with a 30 HP gas engine , 17,500 rated & 26,250 surge watts. Drawbacks 16 gallon tank & a 10 hour run time & the unit weighs 400 lbs. But I like the idea of it being portable if I need to work somewhere else on the property & I don't have electricity.& both tractors will be doing what I bought them for.

 

[CobyRupert]

Whatever gives you the right voltage and cycles.

That would be a some point very close to 540 PTO rpm. He can get 540 PTO rpm with both settings.
Question is, which engine rpms (at 540 PTO rpms) delivers most stable voltage.
Most likely the higher engine rpm will be more stable, but it “could” depend on how a combination of load characteristics (especially motor starting characteristics, and sequencing) align with motor and generator systems rotational mass, engine horsepower, torque curves, and governor response times.

Caterpillar use to have on-line generator sizing software where you could play with with loads (add and delete them), change motor and generator sizing and types, change load sequencing, etc.. and it would calculate voltage dips magnitudes and durations.

What you realize, is if you’re sizing a generator based on just the expected running load, you better oversize it by a lot to account for the other factors you’re ignoring.
Or manage your loads closely.

 

[California]

Most likely the higher engine rpm will be more stable, but it “could” depend ....

Higher engine RPM will have more engine flywheel inertia to resist a sudden load.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Higher engine RPM will have more engine flywheel inertia to resist a sudden load.

Because of gearing TO the pto, the higher RPM will have more torque to the pto/generator to cover heavy loads.

SR

 

[5030]

Probably. But for us this isn't a theoretical discussion. Power outages of 3 or 4 days happen often in these mountains. So I thought to share some thoughts because we have a lot of knowledge dealing with power outages. The reason I prefer a stand alone generator is based on experience.

What I mean by "simple" is that the generator is simply a generator. No other function.
Things that make the Honda's local favorites are how quiet they are and how fuel efficient. They are very sophisticatd. It's remarkable how quiet they are. I can hear it enough to tell it is running, but can hold a normal conversaton while standing next to ours. Outside on the porch, it doesn't make enough noise to hear inside the house.

Downside to the Honda is that they cost twice to three times what the louder generators do. A neighbor has one from Home Depot that you can hear everywhere on his property and inside as well. It also uses several times the fuel that the Honda does.

The arguments in favor of the Tractor PTO don't work for us, because the tractors ares needed to deal with whatever caused the power outage in the first place.
rScotty

I don't have any noise issues as my standby is out by the shop which is about 350 feet from the house and being a well muffled diesel and I can only barely hear the turbocharger whine. Myself, I'd never have a tractor driven pto genny. I have no desire to one, tie up a tractor and 2, run any of my tractors for hours on end at rated pto rpm. Finally, I don't want the added inconvenience of hooking up and unhooking a pto generator every time the power fails. Much easier for me to let the standby assume the load and do an automatic transfer of current completely hands off. All the controls and transfer switchgear are inside the shop out of the weather. if I'm not home and the utility fails, my wife don't have to worry either. Peace of mind is worth everything to us.

 

[Smokeydog]

Tractor diesel governors are not like engine powered generators governors that control engine rpm to maintain a certain rpm and Hz cycles. Tractor diesel governors really only work at low or too high rpm. Ever mow sloped field? Rpm changes down and up hill. Can lower or increase throttle to maintain rpm but is not automatic or governored. You can maintain voltage and hertz pretty well and some loads like heaters and motors are tolerant to fluctuations. This does require some input from the operator. They do have a certain applications.

Stand alone generator generators can maintain clean power easily.

We have a 30+ year old Miller welder/generator gal/hr and 17 year old Yamaha 2400 watt inverter 1.75gal/8hr generator. Latter was run for 4 hours, refrigerator, freezer, lights, internet tv, wood stove fan and medical equipment last week. Our lifestyle and requirements make having back up power necessary.

There are many options and solutions.

 

[Hall00]

I don't have any noise issues as my standby is out by the shop which is about 350 feet from the house and being a well muffled diesel and I can only barely hear the turbocharger whine. Myself, I'd never have a tractor driven pto genny. I have no desire to one, tie up a tractor and 2, run any of my tractors for hours on end at rated pto rpm. Finally, I don't want the added inconvenience of hooking up and unhooking a pto generator every time the power fails. Much easier for me to let the standby assume the load and do an automatic transfer of current completely hands off. All the controls and transfer switchgear are inside the shop out of the weather. if I'm not home and the utility fails, my wife don't have to worry either. Peace of mind is worth everything to us.

Pointless as this thread is about pto gennys and not standalones.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Tractor diesel governors are not like engine powered generators governors that control engine rpm to maintain a certain rpm and Hz cycles. Tractor diesel governors really only work at low or too high rpm. Ever mow sloped field? Rpm changes down and up hill. Can lower or increase throttle to maintain rpm but is not automatic or governored.

That hasn't been MY experience. The only tractors that lose rpm on hills while mowing, are the tractors that are under powered or don't have good low-end torque. OR you are in too high of a gear, for that slope.

SR