PTO generator

[BeezFun]

We are considering a generator for our place in mid-Michigan. The problem I have with the pto option is that I only have 1 tractor. I might have other problems if the power goes out, like maybe a foot of snow.

Disconnect the PTO shaft and use the tractor for something else, then hook it back up. Unless someone's doing surgery in your house it should be OK for an hour or two without power. The other problem with small portable generators is that they like to be stolen.

 

[Charlesaf3]

I have a ?16 or 20kw Pto generator (tiger) I bought from messicks last year. I like it, but almost immediately bought a house with a 16kw natural gas generator. So I'm actually thinking right now might be a good time to put it on it on eBay.

I use it for construction, and was thinking I would get one that wouldn't be another engine to maintain and woulD power the house if I needed it. I'm also sick of maintaining little gas engines. Thing is, the tractor now lives an hour from me and I've got the big whole house.

If I were in a rural area I think pto is great bang for buck. Equivalent whole house is twice the price

 

[Rob-D]

Because I'm using my PV so much now I'm going to electric motors. Lawn mower, weed eater, etc. all run on rechargeable Lithium Ion batteries and charged by my PV. I just bought an electric tractor from the 70's that I'm restoring to do the large part of my lawns, till the garden and plow snow.
I've had it with finicky 2 and 4 cycle gas engines that never start, stink if you work on them, etc.! My 3320 is the exception, it can do big jobs like dig the holes for my concrete forms on the the PV stands and it uses so little fuel and always starts that I'll stay with it as long as I can. But at the fuel prices now I'm working up to building an electric car. I'll see how the restore goes on the GE Elec-trak E15 this winter as I have to make all my own charging circuits and motor controllers.

 

[GPintheMitten]

Because I'm using my PV so much now I'm going to electric motors. Lawn mower, weed eater, etc. all run on rechargeable Lithium Ion batteries and charged by my PV. I just bought an electric tractor from the 70's that I'm restoring to do the large part of my lawns, till the garden and plow snow.
I've had it with finicky 2 and 4 cycle gas engines that never start, stink if you work on them, etc.! My 3320 is the exception, it can do big jobs like dig the holes for my concrete forms on the the PV stands and it uses so little fuel and always starts that I'll stay with it as long as I can. But at the fuel prices now I'm working up to building an electric car. I'll see how the restore goes on the GE Elec-trak E15 this winter as I have to make all my own charging circuits and motor controllers.

What's a PV?

 

[GPintheMitten]

I could have gone either way. PTO and portables each have advantages and drawbacks. But I just purchased a Generac 5500 portable. It will supply the critical circuits in the house by me being selective about what to run when.

 

[JoelT]

I've got a 12K (15Kload) PTO style running off about 27HP PTO. I've got a tail to the main on a 50amp breaker with a 16' cord coiled up that plugs into the the genny when needed. We only run it a couple hours in the am and a couple hours at night. We have 500gal diesel storage so don't have to run around filling 5's up. What I don't like is to get PTO at 540rpm the tractors running at 2600rpm - screaming to me. I'd like around 18 or 1900 or so. Somebody know a good way to gear down?

 

[General Lee]

In my opinion it all comes down to lifestyle and affordability. I hemmed and hauled about what kind of genny to get when I upgraded from my little 5500W portable.

Certain times of the year when the power the goes out, its easy to stay busy all day and not need creature comforts. Some people may not have the option to be readily available to hook up a portable genny, gas it and control essential circuits when SHTF. Some weather events leave you hunkered down inside and me personally I just can't sit around and play cards or read a book all day. I got to have some entertainment, whether its piddling in the garage, watching tv, or surfing TBN. I also have to be clean and polished for my job so roughin it with no power for a week doesn't work for me.

 

[zoltanthegypsy]

Related to JoelT's post - a little: are there such things as inverter PTO generators? If they exist, are they more tolerant of lower PTO RPMs?

Z.

 

[crazyal]

What's a PV?

Solar panels. Ideally an array of photovoltaic panels and enough batteries to last several days would be the best way to go. Of course you then have batteries to maintain but no fuel costs.

I have a 4200w Generic with a Honda GX powering it and I've never had any problems getting it started. It'll sit for months if not a year or more and it'll start up, 5 pulls or less. My plan is to get a stand alone diesel that can be hard wired into a panel that's designed to shut the main line off when the gen is running. There's no way I could get my tractor close enough to the panel which would mean manually shutting off the main and then plugging the get into the welder outlet in the garage. It works but it's not safe and it could even be illegal.

I figure with a diesel I could plumb up the fuel tank so I can use it to fuel the tractor. That way the diesel doesn't sit too long and it has anti-gel in the winter. As long as you run a diesel a couple of times a year for a few minutes it'll be fine.

 

[kuboman]

Related to JoelT's post - a little: are there such things as inverter PTO generators? If they exist, are they more tolerant of lower PTO RPMs?

Z.

Good question I would be interested if there is.

 

[yelbike]

Just a suggestion to figure out your loading/ sizing. Pick up an amprobe or clamp on amp meter. Princess auto has them cheap like $20, i would assume hf would have them also. Remove you panel cover and install the meter on your service conductors. One conductor only not both at same time. Now turn off non essential loads and lights throughout the house. Prop the fridge door open, same with the freezer, turn on any other loads that will run like the blower for a gas furnace. You get the point. Take a reading on each conductor. Take the highest reading and multiply by 240 to give the watts. Now you have the actual minimum amps required for you situation. Add some safety margin, say 30%. Good to go. Don't go stupid larger if you don't need it.

 

[Rob-D]

What's a PV?

Photo Voltaic (Solar Panels)

 

[Rob-D]

Good question I would be interested if there is.

OK, some clarification. An inverter changes AC to DC or visa versa. Solar panels convert the sun's energy to DC (direct current) voltage. The DC is anywhere from 12 volts to several hundered volts depending on the PV string length. (how many panels are connected in series). The inverter changes the DC to AC (alternating current) which is what houses run on, usually 240/120 AC.

We could make an inverter system by generating DC run from a PTO but there are several problems with this. Generating DC is what we used to do in cars 60 years or more ago. It requires a DC generator and DC generators require commutators and brushes. Today we use three phase alternators in cars that only require slip rings or no rings in gensets. The three phase is rectified using diodes to give us DC to charge our car batteries. A genset only needs an alternator (AC) in doesn't need to change the energy to DC, all it has to do is give us our 120 or 240 AC to run our houses. No brushes and no conversion to DC. To get the 120 AC all we have to do is make sure our alternator runs at a specific rpms. It's the rpms that vary the 60 Hz frequency that US houses run on.
To make a DC inverter system adds a lot of complexity to power generation, that's why it's rarely done.

 

[GPintheMitten]

Thanks, Rob.

Photo Voltaic (Solar Panels)

 

[Rob-D]

Thanks, Rob.

Glad to help.

 

[Charlesaf3]

I've figured that if I had to use the pto generator to power my house in the city I'd back feed the garage (I wired up to do it legally). Park tractor in there, no issues except for exhaust, and yeah I am concerned about that - in city so leaving door open isn't ideal. I've been wondering if there was some way to pipe the exhaust outside - some sort of high heat flexible pipe?

My kubota is incredibly reliable. And burns almost no diesel. My experience with cheap gas engines has been pretty bad, I just can't see relying on anything but a Honda to power in an emergency. Diesel generator would be great, but it was noticeably more expensive than pto.

I ran a gas generator borrowed from my electrician for a week during Irene. It was insanely loud, and needed constant gas. Fine for a job site, but not really a long term solution

I actually bought a 20amp xantrex pure sign for my truck. For a lot of things on job sites, I can actually see that being all I need

 

[Rob-D]

I've figured that if I had to use the pto generator to power my house in the city I'd back feed the garage (I wired up to do it legally). Park tractor in there, no issues except for exhaust, and yeah I am concerned about that - in city so leaving door open isn't ideal. I've been wondering if there was some way to pipe the exhaust outside - some sort of high heat flexible pipe?

My kubota is incredibly reliable. And burns almost no diesel. My experience with cheap gas engines has been pretty bad, I just can't see relying on anything but a Honda to power in an emergency. Diesel generator would be great, but it was noticeably more expensive than pto.

I ran a gas generator borrowed from my electrician for a week during Irene. It was insanely loud, and needed constant gas. Fine for a job site, but not really a long term solution

I actually bought a 20amp xantrex pure sign for my truck. For a lot of things on job sites, I can actually see that being all I need

The trouble with that is the Xantrex for the truck is 12v. So let's say your house uses 2Kwh, that means 2k/12 = 166 amps draw from your battery and alternator. That's ok for small stuff like running a sander or lights on a job but your house most likely uses more than the 2Kwh I conservatively used in this example. For instance my off grid system is 48 to 72 volts nominal. (24v panels) Two 24v panels will run anywhere from 60 to 80 volts into the inverter, my other panels are a srting of 3 for 72 volts nominal or about 105 volts when the sun is running them. The higher the voltage the less copper wire for your runs. That's what you want, now back to the 48 volt battery bank that these panels charge. With the 2Kwh we used above: 2000/48 = 41 amps worth of copper. So to run an inverter from a battery bank you want at least 36 to 48 volts. So how do you charge that from your vehicle? Well, you'll need a special alternator and charging system. That's why your inverter system isn't the best. After you start putting appliances, etc. on the load end you won't be able to maintain them.

 

[aczlan]

Couple pieces of exhaust pipe connected to the exhaust pipe of your tractor with a silicone hose should do the trick. Make sure to setup a remote kill switch outside the garage and a couple of CO2 meters in the garage...

Aaron Z

 

[zoltanthegypsy]

OK, some clarification. An inverter changes AC to DC or visa versa. Solar panels convert the sun's energy to DC (direct current) voltage. The DC is anywhere from 12 volts to several hundered volts depending on the PV string length. (how many panels are connected in series). The inverter changes the DC to AC (alternating current) which is what houses run on, usually 240/120 AC.

We could make an inverter system by generating DC run from a PTO but there are several problems with this. Generating DC is what we used to do in cars 60 years or more ago. It requires a DC generator and DC generators require commutators and brushes. Today we use three phase alternators in cars that only require slip rings or no rings in gensets. The three phase is rectified using diodes to give us DC to charge our car batteries. A genset only needs an alternator (AC) in doesn't need to change the energy to DC, all it has to do is give us our 120 or 240 AC to run our houses. No brushes and no conversion to DC. To get the 120 AC all we have to do is make sure our alternator runs at a specific rpms. It's the rpms that vary the 60 Hz frequency that US houses run on.
To make a DC inverter system adds a lot of complexity to power generation, that's why it's rarely done.

True that, but there are some very nice inverter generators out there. The neighbor has a Honda 6000 that's very quiet. The engine doesn't have to run at a fixed speed to maintain a 60Hz line frequency, and only revs when load demands. The inverter takes care of the AC side.

There are also some significant advantages in terms of noise and efficiency.

This is why I asked about an inverter PTO generator. The tractor wouldn't have to run at an exact (high) RPM to maintain the output at 60Hz, and could _maybe_ run slower and quieter. Just speculation on my part, since I haven't seen such a beast.

This is probably OT for this discussion, though...

Z.

 

[aczlan]

This is why I asked about an inverter PTO generator. The tractor wouldn't have to run at an exact (high) RPM to maintain the output at 60Hz, and could _maybe_ run slower and quieter. Just speculation on my part, since I haven't seen such a beast.

A simpler way to do it would be to use a tractor with a 1000RPM PTO throttled back so that the PTO was spinning at 540RPMs. John Deere does this with their 'ePTO' and many older tractors (such as our B7500) have a 1000RPM rear PTO setting.

Aaron Z