Generator PTO generator

[mountain_man]

After experiencing an ice storm in Northeast that knocked out power for 7 days in the winter and hurricane Gloria (8 days) in the summer, we broke down and purchased a Coleman 5000W generator ($500 @ Costco I think). We've used it numerous times and most recently in Colorado during a fierce snowstorm that knocked out power for 3 days. Since we have a domestic well, the generator can power the pump (240V 10amp) as long as were not running other heavy appliances simultaneously (7500W would be more suitable). If you have any electric heating elements you'll need significantly more capacity.

An important part of the generator solution is the connection to your panel. I've used GenTran switches which are designed for generator power transfer GenTran.

I agree storing gasoline is an issue (I use Stabil), and also keep a siphon/pump hose handy. I use about 5 gals every 10 hours. If you have access to LP or Natural Gas, US Carburetion Kits make inexpensive conversion kits.

I considered a PTO generator, but keeping that tractor running at PTO speed for days at a time (no low oil shutoff!), along with not having it available for snow removal, etc. didn't seem seem like a good solution.

 

[Docsknotinn]

F-350, The X series has Diesel engine models available as well. I currently have a 5500XL generac with 25 hours. It is three years old with the idle down and is not a battery started model. In 2000 when I bought it generac was the only company with such liberal rateings on their generators, 7500 kw surge. This is now the 7500XL. The new 5500 is noticeably smaller without the nice panel and features. Mine has a 11 hp Briggs Vanguard and wheel kit, not the semi cheesy handles the new ones have. The trouble with a gas operated Genset is people. When the black out hit it was just like 911. People freaked out for gas. I live on the N side of the Detroit Subs. Van dyke was bumper to bumper grid lock all the way to Imlay city with folks who didnt get off the main road, thank god. In Imlay city which is at least a 30 minute drive normally there were lines at the gas stations miles long. I got lucky getting gas twice that day. I would imagine there were some folks that waited 12 hours in traffic to get gas. There were dead cars that ran out of fuel every where. Haveing said that if any one wants a good deal on a perfect Generac with wheel kit let me know because I for one am switching to diesel. They dont do much good if you cant get fuel. The diesel pumps had perhaps 1 or two cars in line at all the open stations I passed. I am looking at the PTO gensets now. They seem like a good price compared to the stand alone Diesel sets which start around $2800 for similar Kw rateings. I would also add that side by side the Generac is about the same Db as the 2210.

 

[jasnake65]

I ended up doing a search on the internet,Found some good prices compared to Northern Tool.Cheaper than i thought it would be for what i wanted. If im not home and the little lady is by herself she wanted to get a electric start so she dosen't have to pull,OK with me. And they even have them in stock with free shipping to boot. Do a little checking locally to see whats in my area,but not paying sales tax and free shipping
on a Generac i might not be able to pass it up

 

[Cdash]

Do what I do:

Keep an extra vehicle on hand (94 Jeep cherokee) with a 20 gallon tank that is kept close to full. When I saw the lines on Friday at the gas station near me that was running on generators or something, I turned around, went home and got the hose out and started siphoning. And by using a clear hose, I was able to do it without drinking any of it!!

I bought me a 5250W generator at Home Depot on Thursday as soon as I figured out how widespread this was. Never figured that power would come back on in less than 24 hours. But I intend on keeping it, I need to make up a cord to plug it into the 220V welder plug I have wired in my garage. That way, I just throw the main breaker, and backfeed the house thru my 50amp plug with heavy wiring. A nice 8 or 10 gage cord about 10 foot long will allow my generator to sit outside, be plugged into both and have the door shut.

I feel confident that my wife could hook this up by herself. The generator has a wheel kit on it, so I know she can move it, The cord will be kept with it and she knows how to work the breaker box. While I like the idea of a 12kW PTO generator, I am not too sure that she could get it hooked up and everything else she would need to do.

I am happy with it.

Besides, now that I have a generator, I won't have a power outage for the next 10 years, other than a flicker. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[accordionman]

HELLO TO ALL,
i bought a generac from HOME DEPOT, 15KW on propane.
cost $3236.38 with tax. less than NORTHER TOOL,and i
got to pay it off in 6 months with no interest. cannot
beat a deal like this.
accordionman
william l. brown
wright city, mo.
L3000DT/FEL,and other good stuff

 

[Docsknotinn]

The Generacs are a great buy. No doubt there. I have a new Dodge hemi which is the only gas powered vehicle left here. I tried to Siphon it But I couldn't get the dang hose into the tank. It probably has one of those tee of the owner anti siphon gizmos.

 

[755inNY]

<font color="blue"> I would go with LP gas not gasoline or diesel. LP gas will STORE well and not go to varnish or jelly over time. A guy told me about a place here in the Midwest that wrecks out Motor Homes, and has the Onan and Kohler units at good prices. A propane conversion kit will get them set up perfectly. </font>

CJDave
I'm with you on the storage life problem with gasoline but LP gas isn't much easier to store and LP has less BTU output therefore less KWatt output. How long will a 20# tank last? This is probably the largest convenient size for portability. I suppose you could have one of those large 100# tanks parked at your house for standby purposes but what about refilling it during a long power outage. You also can't siphon a few gallons out your car to stretch out your supply. You also mentioned a propane conversion kit for used generators from motor homes. Aren't they already powered by propane?

What do you think about the tri-fuel generators (LP, Natural Gas and gasoline)? I have natural gas available and thought it would be nice to install a quick disconnect outlet (like a BBQ grill). I could still use gasoline if I wanted to use the generator as portable power out in the field or for the extra KW output.

For the gasoline storage issue, I always run my generator dry using stabalized fuel in the tank. I keep 7 gallons of stabilized fuel on hand. I pour the fuel into one of my cars at least once a year and replace with new, stabilized fuel. I put the stabilizer in as soon as I get the fuel (so I don't forget) and date the container.

Jeff

 

[755inNY]

Steve,

You can install a costly transfer switch that will power a limited number of circuits connected to it. Or you can turn off the main breaker at your service panel. This will keep the generator from back feeding the line. This is a critical step when using the generator.

I back feed the service panel with 220v from the generator going through a double pole breaker in the panel. This breaker is always off except for use with the generator. I turn the main power off first then I turn on the generator circuit breaker. I also have color coded the breakers which should be turned off to prevent accidental overload on the generator (electric stove, washing machine, dishwasher, feed to the barn, etc.).

I only have a 4KW generator and it does a adequate job. Your 6KW should be OK unless you have a lot of necessary high load devices. I need to be careful about balancing loads, giving priority to refrigerators and freezer in summer and furnace in winter. A larger generator would certainly eliminate some of the manual load control.

Jeff

 

[OkeeDon]

Having been in the business of dispensing propane for portable cylinders, I can answer a couple of those.

There is no trouble storing propane cylinders as long as they're outdoors. The propane won't go bad in a reasonable period - I've seen people store them for 5 and 10 years and use them with no problems. A 20# cylinder holds a little over 4.5 gallons. There is about a 10% loss of efficiency, so figure how long your generator would run on 4 gallons of gasoline and you'll be close. As for the loss of efficiency, the generator will still put out maximum power because that is dependent on RPM's and the generator will adjust itself to the proper RPM's no matter what the fuel. It will just use a little more propane to produce the same power.

Cylinders of 30# and 40# are widely available, but not at exchange sites. You can transport up to 90# in a closed vehicle; 4-20#, 3-30# or 2-40#. A 100# upright cylinder can be transported in the upright position in a pickup or trailer. It weighs about 170# when full. That's about the largest practical size that can be transported. 100# cylinders cost about $90 - $130 new.

Most motor homes have generators powered by the fuel they use - gasoline or diesel. Propane powered generators are certainly used, but since the motor home also needs propane for the water heater, furnace, stove and refigerator, there isn't much left for a generator. Very small motor homes usually have a 40# tank; large coaches usually have a 100# tank. My 28' Pace Arrow has an 80# tank. The only way I would run a propane generator in my motor home is with a second propane tank, and there just isn't room to mount one.

By the way, for anyone interested, most motor home generators do not produce 230v. The large bus-type coaches may have dual voltage, but they would be relatively rare in the used market - and expensive. Even a used Onan from a motor home would probably cost more than a new portable unit, as they run from $3,000 to $4,500 new for 4KW to 7KW.

Again, by the way, the nice thing about owning a motor home - even a 15 year old one like mine, is that in cases of emergency one can just move into the motor home. Move the essential foodstuffs into the RV fridge and you're good to go. We worry primarily about hurricanes. If one happened to come, we'd move in and take off out of the path. I keep the gas tank and water tank full and the holding tanks empty just in case. It holds 86 gallons of gas so I can drive 100 miles and still have 60 gallons or more to run the generator. It would only have to be run a few hours a day to keep the batteries charged unless we wanted A/C or the microwave.

 

[John_Mc]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Speaking of generators, what is required to hook one up to one's house? Doesn't there have to be something that keeps it from feeding back into the power grid? OTherwise, wouldn't the linemen be in danger when they are working on the lines.)</font>

Yes, a legal installation usually involves a mechanical interlock on the feed into your breaker box (or sometimes, as in my house, it's built into your breaker box). You cannot throw the breaker which connects your generator to the panel until you throw another breaker which disconnects you from the power company lines.

I've known folks who work around this in an emergency: They shut off their main breaker, then plug their generator into the outlet for their electric dryer or electric oven (any high-capacity 220 volt circuit will do). This back feeds their panel, and they just shut off individual unneeded circuits in the panel to avoid overloading the generator. This can be dangerous if you are not careful. If someone throws your main breaker on (to see if the power company is back online yet) without disconnecting your generator, you risk frying a lineman by feeding your generator's juice out into power company lines that the lineman thinks are dead.

John Mc

 

[Bird]

Well described, Don. We once had an 18' Winnebago with a 2.5kw Onan that pulled the gasoline from the motorhome's 40 gallon tank. Our last RV was a 40' Bounder with a 7kw Onan that pulled the gasoline from the motorhome's 90 gallon tank. But when we were living in the 32' CarriLite (fifth-wheel) we had a 4.5kw Kohler that pulled propane from two 30# bottles. They all worked well for what they were designed for and we never had any need for additional power, but of course that propane generator would go through the propane pretty fast.

 

[Kelvin]

I have a very basic (manual start...) Sears (Generac) 3500 watt portable generator that has the low-idle feature that kicks in when there is no power draw on the generator. Seems like I bought it around 1993.

Kelvin

 

[Slamfire]

You and I may know how to do this. I've 30 years in the electric utility industry. But your distribution network has standards you might want to check into. The simplest would be an interlock between the power line supply and the generator. Electricute just one line patrolman and they'd come after you hammer and tongs. I'll agree it can be a manual switch, but get an interlock of some kind, if only to keep your homeowner's insurance company happy.

 

[dmftoy1]

Any idea what it would cost to have an interlock installed? Just trying to get an idea of how much more I would need to spend above and beyond the cost of the generator if I decide to buy one.

Thanks in advance,
Dave

 

[MossRoad]

From what I've seen, the simplest, safest, least expensive way to do it is to use a double pole, double throw switch between your service disconnect and main panel. If it is thrown one way, the power comes from the utility. If you throw it the other way, it breaks the connection to the utility, then makes the connection to your generator. The price for one rated at 100 amps is reletively cheap(our house has 100 amp service). However, if you have 200 amp or higher service the price skyrockets. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif I don't really know why the price is so much more, but it is from what I've seen. I would also check with your local building department, as there may be code issues, permits, inspections, etc... Also, if you have no inspections and there is an electrical problem, your homeowners insurance may be void. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Someone here once mentioned converting all of their major appliances such as furnace and well pump to twist lock cords and connectors. If there is a power outage, you just unplug the well and furnace and run an extension cord out a basement window to the generator. Very simple and safe. No way to fry a lineman down the road. You get heat and water, which is all you really need, at a very low cost.

 

[Trev]

I LOVE my 17kw (35kw surge) PTO generator, but there are some issues that should be considered.

It can power both my house and my neighbor's, and nothing at all phases it... you don't have to turn on things one at a time.. just throw the breaker and it takes up the whole load without even a puff of black smoke from the exhaust.

It does tie up the tractor.. if you want to plow, move branches, etc., you have to shut down the power while you do it.

Wife can't hook it up alone.

On the plus side, one less engine to maintain, can tow it to the field for emergency power anyplace it's needed, and so on.

It got us through 8 days of no power last winter, without even breathing hard. A 300 gallon skid tank of off-road diesel made sure I had plenty of fuel for an even more extended outage.

You pays your money, and takes your pick. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Bob

 

[Egon]

trev:

How's about moving in next to me. I'll be a good neighbour.

Egon

 

[Docsknotinn]

Trev, is your PTO generator on a trailer ? I have been looking at this but I am confused, nothing new here ! How do you get the PTO and genset level ? I mean it seems like based on the height/size of the tractor or the genset that when useing a telescoping shaft it would either be angled up or down to some degree. or does it actually hook up to the 3 pth ??? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif Dave

 

[Trev]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Trev, is your PTO generator on a trailer ? I have been looking at this but I am confused, nothing new here ! How do you get the PTO and genset level ? I mean it seems like based on the height/size of the tractor or the genset that when useing a telescoping shaft it would either be angled up or down to some degree. or does it actually hook up to the 3 pth ??? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif Dave )</font>

Hi Dave!

My PTO generator came mounted on a small trailer which hooks to the drawbar. The 3pt hitch doesn't come into play at all. You simply hook the trailer to the drawbar, connect the PTO shaft, and, to minimize vibrations, I also try to align the PTO shaft so it is as straight (right to left) as possible. The up/down alignment seems to be fine as it came. An easy way to adjust left/right is to just use a 2x4 to stick under the generator, lift, and shift side to side a bit until it's aligned as well as you can get it.

Then you simply engage the PTO and bring up the RPM until the meter on the generator indicates as close to 60 HZ as you can get it.

I don't think the alignment of the PTO shaft is critical.. it's just that one day I noticed some vibration in the generator, and fixed it by aligning the shaft.. so I figured no vibration is better than vibration. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I'm on vacation, but would send you pictures if I could. I'm sure someone here can. It's just a simple little trailer with used car tires on it and a standard drawbar connector.

HTH,
Bob