Pull that foot out of the grave

wroughtn_harv · Aug 6, 2004

Okeedon and help me out here.

I got a call this morning to meet with a restaurant--country club manager about a cooker. Supposedly they've bought a killer grill. And they want it mobile, unique, and western killer style.

Something about wanting to be able to cook in the restaurant, or on the patio, or wherever.

I'm thinking stone and iron timewarped, maybe twisted a bit too. I understand the need for stainless or comparable surfaces for food preparation. This is a propane grill. So I'm wondering about problems that are inherent with propane grilling in a public place.

Help me. Toss ideas right and left, maybe even a couple down the middle. I'm supposed to meet with these folks early next week. I'd like to walk in not sounding like a rube.

Even more important, I've always wanted to make a killer cooker that was one of a kind. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Bob_Skurka · Aug 6, 2004

Harv, remember that propane is heavier than air and very explosive. The compartment for the propane tank must be ventilated at the bottom so that any leaking propane leaks out of any confined space.

Dozernut · Aug 6, 2004

It would be like the student giving the master lessons if I were to give you advise, but here is a site with a bunch of ideas.
http://www.bbqjudge.com/webpages/bbqjc_pitbuilders.htm

DocHeb · Aug 6, 2004

Plan some way to divert some of the smoke upward or higher. My wife and I were at a nice Roadhouse in Ann Arbor a couple weeks ago, and the barbeque was on the patio. It seemed like a nice idea to sit out in the sun, until the breeze shifted and persistently smoked us as much as the BBQ. We then finished our evening at a friend's party where everyone asked "do you smell something burning???"

alan40 · Aug 6, 2004

My first idea and only idea was a chuck wagon design. With the hood and a tail gate etc.
Take care,

OkeeDon · Aug 6, 2004

( ( Okeedon and help me out here...I've always wanted to make a killer cooker that was one of a kind. ))

There's grills and then there's grills. Once you find out a little more about what kind of killer grill they bought, I'll be able to give you a lot more help.

On the basics. Outdoor and mobile is no problem. Maybe a little creating and a little fabricating, but no problem. Indoor and mobile has limits. I'm not normally one of the TBN safety nazis who says, "don't never do this", but don't never take a portable propane tank indoors. Period. That means that they'll have to do some plumbing to pipe the propane in, and that limits the mobility to places where the plumbing is.

As mentioned above, the other big limiting thing indoors is smoke. So, starting with the indoors, what I'd propose would be to build a corral for the grill indoors. Roll it in, put it in place, and cook away. Quick disconnect hoses for the propane are easy to set up. Create a big, honkin' hood over the grill area and vent it outside. Being that it's a restaurant, they should already be familiar with your local codes for exhaust hoods, fans, filters, grease traps, etc. But, a rough rule of thumb for grills is that you need 300 CFM air removal for every 32K BTUs of grill, with a 600 CFM minimum. A killer grill might use 96K - 128K BTUs on full burn mode, so that means 900 - 1200 CFM minimum - but check the local regs. The second rule of thumb is that starting with 600 CFM and 8" vent size, the vent piping goes up roughly 2" for each 300 CFM increase. So, 900 CFM needs a 10" flue, and 1200 CFM needs a 12" flue, etc. Again, all the standards should be set by whoever regulates restaurants in your area, and may vary considerably. In fact, it may not even be possible to use their grill indoors in a public, commercial area if it has been certified only for outdoor use. That may be kind of silly, considering that they could probably build their own firepit indoors and use it, but all those ugly goblins of liability and such start to creep in.

But, the obvious point is that because of the need for some serious ventilation and because of the need to pipe in propane, indoor mobility is not particularly flexible.

Just my mention of the word "corral" for the grill should have set your juices flowing as far as ideas on how to present it.

Outside, the mobility is easier, and even desired. You can build some sort of chimney or hood. or they can just move the grill to the other side of their dining patio if the wind shifts. The propane can be portable or can be piped from a central source and hood up with a flexible hose and quick disconnect (that matches the one indoors). For the design of the grill itself, think chuck wagon -- although without the canvas top covering the whole thing -- maybe a little bit of that, wagon wheels, pots and pans hanging off the side, and so forth. Mount the grill in a fake chuck wagon and roll it around. You can get inventive with serving areas, etc.

Regardless of where you mount it, you've got to avoid combustible materials near the grill itself, which limits the chuck wagon idea a bit. Iron and stone is good.

Get me a brand name and size of the grill they bought, and I'll dig into a bit. Different grills have different ways to be mounted, etc., and that might have a bearing.

{EDIT} While I was wrting this, Alan came up with the chuck wagon, also. Great minds on the same track -- must be an omen of something or other.

Junkman · Aug 6, 2004

It is illegal in all states to have a propane tank inside of a building, with the exception of one that has never been filled and is for sale. Been that way for over 20 years that I know of....

AndyM · Aug 6, 2004

It is illegal in all states to have a propane tank inside of a building, with the exception of one that has never been filled and is for sale. Been that way for over 20 years that I know of.... 

Not meaning to steal Harvey's thread, but our manufacturing facility has propane tanks all over the place indoors for various uses. We've had metal cages fabricated around them so the tanks can't accidentally tipped over. OSHA has never found it to be a problem in the past. However, the full ones and empty ones that aren't being used are stored outside, away from everything else.

Bob_Skurka · Aug 6, 2004

( It is illegal in all states to have a propane tank inside of a building, with the exception of one that has never been filled and is for sale. Been that way for over 20 years that I know of.... 

Not meaning to steal Harvey's thread, but our manufacturing facility has propane tanks all over the place indoors for various uses. We've had metal cages fabricated around them so the tanks can't accidentally tipped over. OSHA has never found it to be a problem in the past. However, the full ones and empty ones that aren't being used are stored outside, away from everything else. )

I have propane tanks INSIDE my building right now. It is legal here. But storage of loaded tanks requires special cages. We use propane to run equipment. OSHA and fire marshall approved! We are inspected yearly.

MadReferee · Aug 6, 2004

( It is illegal in all states to have a propane tank inside of a building, with the exception of one that has never been filled and is for sale. Been that way for over 20 years that I know of.... )

Such a blanket statement is just not true. There is no state law in New Hampshire that regulates the storage or use of the portable propane tanks of the type typically used for home BBQ's.

However, there may be local ordinances that make a feeble attempt to regulate their placement and storage for commercial and residential use. For example, the city of Manchester has a local ordinance that prohibits using gas grills on porches. The police have said that the ordinance is unenforceable but I am sure they will use it as a reason to get you if they want you.

My town has no such ridiculous ordinance.