Pulling Cat5e wire thru 1 1/4" poly pipe

keeney · Oct 10, 2005

Re: Pulling Cat5e wire thru 1 1/4\" poly pipe

RE:

 although I understand the "replace it every 5 years" argument,


My point wasn't that I expect it to fail every five years.

My point was that if you do a proper job of putting in the water-tight conduit, you won't need the direct-burial-rated cable.

Conversely, if you are going to use the direct-burial cable, why bother with the water-tight conduit?

Using both is needless overkill (IMHO).

Yes, the cost per-foot price difference for the direct-burial cable is going to be small for such a small run.

However, the hassle factor may not be. If you are not in the trade, purchasing a small quantity of the special grade cat 5e may be more hassle than it is worth. They are unlikely to have it at the local box store. You will get stuck buying a full 1000' roll from a trade supplier. They will only be open until 4 PM. Without a pre-established account, you will get the cruddy walk-up list-price.

Ordering it on the internet might be easier, but then it costs shipping and takes a week to arrive.

I do like the cheap poly "conduit" idea. Assuming you can install it without putting a hole in it and you seal the ends, it gives you reasonable protection for regular indoor rated cable. And it gives you the ability to replace a line IF necessary or add lines if desired.

Some people like a bit of overkill, and others like a bit of insurance against a poor installation. If that is the case, go ahead and put the direct-burial cable in a water-tight conduit.

- Rick

Footnote concerning 100-base-T ethernet wiring:

Even though the common cat 5e wire typically has 4 pairs, only two pairs are used for ethernet signals (up to 100-T). If a pair fails, you can substitute one of the other pairs if its undamaged. If you suspect (or know from a tester) that only one pair has gone bad, this trick may be worth trying before pulling a new line.

Of course this trick doesn't help at all if the problem is that your 3-year-old has cut the cable clean through in the basement with her play scissors "just like daddy does".

CTyler · Oct 10, 2005

Re: Pulling Cat5e wire thru 1 1/4\" poly pipe

( Of course this trick doesn't help at all if the problem is that your 3-year-old has cut the cable clean through in the basement with her play scissors "just like daddy does".
)

Thats when you say "Cmon honey...were going to play a game. Which one do you like better? Tug of war or Scotch locks" /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

WhyNot · Oct 10, 2005

Re: Pulling Cat5e wire thru 1 1/4\" poly pipe

 
Scotch locks. That is the first time I have actually heard them called by their real name around here they are reds or bugs. Also when we install T's to a cell site most demarcation cabinets are outside and when we have to extend the d-mark to the carriers shelter or cabinet it is always through conduit that is always full of water and we use indoor/outdoor cat5 4 pr with out any problems. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

jim_wilson · Oct 10, 2005

Re: Pulling Cat5e wire thru 1 1/4\" poly pipe

I spent quite a bit of time on a few of the house building forums researching this very problem - and the consensus seems to be that no matter what you do you WILL get moisture in your conduit eventually. Get burial rated cable to protect the cable from moisture - you put the cable in the conduit not necessarily to protect it from moisture but to protect it from insulation breakage caused by rock movement under the ground, little critters eating the cable, and the eventual backhoe operator ripping your cable out.

If you can do it using fiber optic cable would be a good way to go - you will likely have less problems with signal loss over distance and you can get pretty cheap Gig switches with both fiber and optic ports on them. The fiber to Cat5e converters can be pretty expensive. If you are going to use copper go with a good brand Cat5e. The time you will spend trying to diagnose problems later is not worth the few bucks you will save on the front end if you go with really cheap cable. Good brands are: Belden, Belkin, and a few other name brands.

I have always used Belden cable products and had good success with them. Below is just a few examples of places that carry burial rated cable - search for "burial" on each page:

http://www.mycableshop.com/3rd_Level/Bulk-CAT6-UTP-Outdoor.htm

http://www.broadbandutopia.com/broadbandutopia/belden.html

http://www.tessco.com/products/displaySkus.do?groupId=404&subgroupId=10

http://www.broadbandutopia.com/broadbandutopia/ind.html

http://www.signaturewire.com/CatalogProducts.asp?nProductsID=40

cmhyland · Oct 10, 2005

Re: Pulling Cat5e wire thru 1 1/4\" poly pipe

I don't see using fiber as a reasonable solution.

150 feet is an easy run for Cat 5. I would use plenum rated cable as the jacket is much more tough and unlikely to break while being pulled.

Remember that as long as the jacket remains intact any condensation in the conduit will not cause any problems. Remember the cable is sealed.

There is no reason to apply lots of technology to a job that can be handled in a fairly low tech method.

Regards,
Chris

MikePA · Oct 10, 2005

Re: Pulling Cat5e wire thru 1 1/4\" poly pipe

Something to keep in mind with all the discussion about megabytes, gigabytes and Cat 5e cable. The limiting factor in your situation is the speed of the satellite connection. What is it? The Direcway options are (upload/download) 128Kbps/700Kbps and 200Kbps/1000Kbps. An 802.11N wireless connection between your house and barn can run between 20 and 25 megabytes. Until you can get a connection to the Internet that's faster than satellite, an 802.11N wireless connection between your house and barn is all you'll need, IMO.

The only reason you'd need a faster connection between house and barn is if you spend a lot of time transferring files between a PC at the house and a PC at the barn or other activities that don't involve accessing the Internet.

Scrounger · Oct 10, 2005

Re: Pulling Cat5e wire thru 1 1/4\" poly pipe

100 meters or 328 feet is the max length for cat5.

Varmintmist · Oct 11, 2005

Re: Pulling Cat5e wire thru 1 1/4\" poly pipe

( Why are there recomendations for a buriable cable when it will be inside a plastic pipe?
)

Because I have replaced and billed customers many times for putting substandard wire under the earth. Then I had to listen to them complain that "It was in conduit."

Plastic coated wire will still be affected by water if it is not rated for such. It has pores and will suck moisture. Period. I have never seen a conduit in this area or any area that I have ever worked that stayed dry forever. You may live in a area where the temp stays the same all year round and air doesnt flow. I would still bet a buck that if you find the low spot in your conduit there is water there at least part of the year.

I have 18 years in telecom and I gave you my opinion on household wire in a underground situation. I dont know networks but I do know outside plant. The best way to do a job is as my father drilled into me, "As near right as possible" It was another one of those times that he was right. I have spent a lot more doing stuff cheap.

keeney · Oct 12, 2005

Re: Pulling Cat5e wire thru 1 1/4\" poly pipe

RE:
"You may live in a area where the temp stays the same all year round and air doesnt flow. "

The key is to make sure the "air doesn't flow". I totally agree that if the water-tight conduit is not air-tight at both ends, you will for sure get condensation. I suspect that many installations neglect or shortcut this step and thus the frequent finding of failures and condensation.

Any non-zero pressure differential will cause air to flow at some non-zero flow rate. Even an infitesimal flow of humid air will continuosly push moisture into the cool conduit where it will condense, molecule by molecule, 24x7 until the water collects enough to be a problem.

Even a pipe blocked at one end may have enough diffusion into the open end to transport humidity deep enough into the cooler portions of the pipe and cause condensation.

The conduit MUST be be properly sealed air-tight at both ends. If you fail this step, you might as well just fill it with water when you install it.

- Rick

bebster · Oct 16, 2005

Re: Pulling Cat5e wire thru 1 1/4\" poly pipe

Good points on sealing the conduit to prevent air flow and eventual condensing moisture. Can this be done by using foam sealants you find at a home center and foaming into the ends of the conduits a few inches? Like the kind that seals doors and windows?