Pump Pix and Hose List

[Wayne County Hose]

J.J., I'll check my books at my shop tomorrow. Maybe I can find out something on the q.d.'s.

I also printed out the hydraulic diagrams posted a few posts ago. These are more of a parts diagram rather than a schematic as they are not very accurate as to what goes where. There are some components hanging out in space. I wouldn't trust them as a schematic. They look to be written by a junior engineer, as most of these are no matter what manufacturer. On the wheel motor diagram, part #5, is on the wrong end of the hose, it should come off the filter, not off the motor. If it is as written, the crimp fitting on the pump end of the hose would have to be a -16 hose jump size to a -20 fitting, NPT swivel. This fitting doesn't exist. Carl, you find stuff in movies, this is where I find my stuff. Don't trust these drawings.
Carl, I know it's not exactly like yours, but it will give me a better idea how these things work. If you guys need an accumulator charged, let me know. I have the kit. I just need a nitrogen tank and the pressure to fill. They have the same brake systems on some high end forklifts. The accumulator is there to act as a pressure reservoir.

 

[SpringHollow]

Hi Andy,

I keep thinking about replacing the PT's hoses and lining the tunnel etc. I assume that it does not make sense to buy bulk hose and reusable fittings to do this because of the cost, particularly because of the many diameters used. My guess is it partly depends upon the typical lifetime of the hose. What is a reasonable estimate for hose lifetime on these tractors (I realize it would be all over the map but a reasonable guess would help with decision making of when and how to change the hoses).

i would appreciate your thoughts on this.

Thanks,

Ken

 

[Wayne County Hose]

Lifetime of hoses. Here's what I tell my customers. Replace them when they blow. If you are sick of stopping work to remove a hose and get one made, replace them all. There is no magic number for anything with hoses that I know of. There are so many variables. Heat, exposure to sunlight, constant pressure, pressure surges, and the list goes on. I have seen 2 hoses next to each other, same function, 2 different cylinders. One blow out in a year, the other side last 5 years. I don't know, wish I did.

Now, my experience on this type of application. If you blow 1 or 2 hoses, no big deal. If you blow a few hoses, you might want to consider mass rerplacement.

It looks like on these PT's, that bulk replacement would make sense. There's only a couple different size hoses. Some of the problems with reusables, cost of the fittings. They ain't cheap. And, they only fit the older style hoses. They don't fit the newer EN spec or higher flex hoses. You are stuck using the old style hose which is not as good as the newer stuff. But, to have hoses made is more expensive. DHH sells the old spec hose. I can not match DHH's price. I sell a superior hose, but how much better is it? I have a good guess, but it's just a guess.

 

[woodlandfarms]

Andy

New Hose or old hose? Can you digress? Also you mention fittings... And if you are really kind you will keep it simple as I am a bit of a ******. Small words, short sentences ;-)

Carl

 

[Wayne County Hose]

Andy

New Hose or old hose? Can you digress? Also you mention fittings... And if you are really kind you will keep it simple as I am a bit of a ******. Small words, short sentences ;-)

Carl

What does that word mean? Is that when you can't digest dinner, you digress it?

New old or old hose? Ummm...... as pertaining to what? We're not on the same page. Please keep in mind, I only have 2 brain cells left, and some days they don't speak to each other.

 

[SpringHollow]

I think he means the traditional hose and the new better more flexible hose.

Ken

 

[woodlandfarms]

Ahh Andy, you kill me ;-)

Ken's got my question. You had said the re-useable fittings do not work on new style of hoses. I did not know that there was a new style of hose. The hoses I have been purchasing are 2 wire cloth wrapped (Except for the 4 wire mistake I made at Napa).

As this is your line of work I thought maybe you could tell us what to look for in a hose when you have a choice.

Also, Napa sells these flare ended hose fittings (gold in color) while the hose shop in Longview sells the silver ones that are a bit more compact. Any difference?

 

[Wayne County Hose]

Ahh Andy, you kill me ;-)

Ken's got my question. You had said the re-useable fittings do not work on new style of hoses. I did not know that there was a new style of hose. The hoses I have been purchasing are 2 wire cloth wrapped (Except for the 4 wire mistake I made at Napa).

There was the same 2 wire hose made almost forever. 2 wire is your most common hose. A few years ago, a new EN spec hose came out. Basically, it just made our American hoses the same as the rest of the world. The hose has about half the bend radius and about 15-20% higher pressure rating. Most shops don't have this new style hose yet. It is more expensive and most people don't care about the EN spec, they just want cheap. But, quite a bit of new equipment has the EN hose on it and shops are selling the old style hose. Should anything ever happen, there's a huge liability issue. I don't even have the new spec hose yet, I plan on ordering it when business picks up in the spring. It also takes different tooling and different crimp fittings, so switching over is not cheap. I do carry a newer hose which crimps the same fitting and uses the same tooling. The newer hose is SAE100R16. It has half the bend radius of the old hose with the same pressure rating. The SAE # of a hose will be printed on it, it's the law. The old hose is SAE100R2. The reusable fittings can only go on 100R2 hose. There are different wall thicknesses and the fittings can't interchange.

As this is your line of work I thought maybe you could tell us what to look for in a hose when you have a choice.

Also, Napa sells these flare ended hose fittings (gold in color) while the hose shop in Longview sells the silver ones that are a bit more compact. Any difference?

The only difference between these 2 fittings is the manufacturer.
The new EN spec hose is also SAE100R16, but it has a higher pressure rating and is a better quality hose. You will pay for the quality. If I didn't have my shop, my choice would be any 100R16 hose over any 100R2 hose, You really don't need the EN spec hose if your machine didn't come with it, but it is better. The EN hose also uses a pure nitrile inner liner and a vinyl nitrile outer cover. Non-EN hoses use a nitrile blend inner liner(cheaper), and a neoprene outer cover. So, all things being equal, I would, for my equipment, pick a shop that carried the EN spec hose first, plain SAE100R16 next, and SAE100R2 last. Basically, ask your local hose shop if they carry the EN spec 2 wire hose. If they say no, ask what SAE100R# their 2 wire hose is, and go from there. If they have no clue what you are talking about.......RUN!


I am also shocked that your local Crapa could make a 4 wire hose. That's rare, first Napa I've heard of that carries 4 wire hose. I would like to say that by carrying 4 wire hose they must know what they are doing, but maybe not.

 

[woodlandfarms]

Our napa actually knows what they are doing. It is the only game for nearly 30 miles. By osmosis they have learned their hose craft. But they are also 40% more expensive than the major hose shop that is 30 miles out of town.

Thanks for all the lesson. The thing with my PT is that almost all the hoses have serious bends (complete 180 turns). and in very small spaces. If you are saying that the new hoses need 2 feet to make a 180 instead of 1 foot (width) then I will not be able to make the upgrade.

Carl

 

[SpringHollow]

So Andy, can you give rough pricing for some sort of common hose to compare the costs of these options? Say a 4' long hose, 1/2" diameter, maybe just 1/2" Male NPT ends. Just curious how dramatic the price difference is. If it is a lot o work, do not bother.

Ken