Pump upgrade for dump trailer

[nisaacs]

I posted this on another forum so I though I would share it here. As all you owner operators of dump trailers are aware, the lift is super slow. For me, it is aggravatingly slow. For a home owner with once in awhile use, it is fine, in a commercial setting, not.

(1)

Calling all dump trailer owners/operators. Or just anyone with hydraulic experience.

If you have a dump trailer you know how slow they cycle. The bigger the trailer/hoist the slower they go. I think jhenderson put me on to a double pump system that is offered. I am really thinking about it or just adding a second pump. The double pump is expensive or about $800 more than a second pump. Since two pumps will have two tanks, my concern is, will the oil level stay equal or will one or the other overflow. I think I can adapt a fitting to the tanks and run a hose between them. There is an unused plug on the tanks that I think is 1" straight thread. Is there a 1" o-ring boss fitting? I think they are straight thread. What do you guys think?

KTI Hydraulics Dual Pump Motor Hydraulic Pump w/ Remote | Fayette Trailers LLC

(2)

Almost done with the conversion, still lack one o-ring boss #6 straight and both tee's. Sunday is not a good day to find parts, I did get all 4 hoses made, that was good.

I moved one battery out of the large section of the tool box and turned the existing one, for clearance to add the second pump. I wired one battery per pump and jumped the batteries together. I am going to run both controllers for independent use of each pump or both.

I will be all in for about $600 v/s $1200 for the double pump, plus what they don't furnish for the install.

 

[nisaacs]

Finished the two pump install. I like it! With two pumps in operation, it goes about twice as fast, as expected.

 

[4570Man]

Why’d you go that option vs a gas motor?

 

[Bearsixty7]

Finished the two pump install. I like it! With two pumps in operation, it goes about twice as fast, as expected.

That's with the double? That is still slower than my Big Tex 10LX albeit that's a higher rated trailer I'm sure. I bet it was agonizing if it was slower before.

 

[nisaacs]

Why’d you go that option vs a gas motor?

Gas motor is still 2 GPM flow, $2200, manual control valve and you need room to mount it. My complaint is cycle time and needed/wanted more flow.

https://premium-supply.com/collecti...roducts/gas-dump-trailer-hydraulic-power-unit

 

[nisaacs]

That's with the double? That is still slower than my Big Tex 10LX albeit that's a higher rated trailer I'm sure. I bet it was agonizing if it was slower before.

Here is a good side by side comparison of one pump v/s the double.

 

[nikerret]

Let us know how big the difference is, at load capacity, when you get a chance. This is uncharted territory, from what I’ve seen.

 

[Bearsixty7]

Here is a good side by side comparison of one pump v/s the double.

Didn't seem like that big a difference going up, until the double started back down, still both are so slow!

I like the speed of my smaller capacity Big Tex 10LX (9999 GVWR), it is much faster and all I need.

 

[Hay Dude]

That’s an eye opener. I can’t believe how long one has to wait for a single electric dump trailer pump. It almost makes the extra expense of owning a dump truck worth it, but not quite. Large CDL sized dump trailers at 20 grand+ are approaching the cost of a solid used dump truck, but the maintenance and fees of owning a dump truck are astronomical compared to a dump trailer.
I like the twin pumps. Definitely something I’d consider if buying a new one.

 

[Machz17]

I posted this on another forum so I though I would share it here. As all you owner operators of dump trailers are aware, the lift is super slow. For me, it is aggravatingly slow. For a home owner with once in awhile use, it is fine, in a commercial setting, not.

(1)

Calling all dump trailer owners/operators. Or just anyone with hydraulic experience.

If you have a dump trailer you know how slow they cycle. The bigger the trailer/hoist the slower they go. I think jhenderson put me on to a double pump system that is offered. I am really thinking about it or just adding a second pump. The double pump is expensive or about $800 more than a second pump. Since two pumps will have two tanks, my concern is, will the oil level stay equal or will one or the other overflow. I think I can adapt a fitting to the tanks and run a hose between them. There is an unused plug on the tanks that I think is 1" straight thread. Is there a 1" o-ring boss fitting? I think they are straight thread. What do you guys think?

KTI Hydraulics Dual Pump Motor Hydraulic Pump w/ Remote | Fayette Trailers LLC

(2)

Almost done with the conversion, still lack one o-ring boss #6 straight and both tee's. Sunday is not a good day to find parts, I did get all 4 hoses made, that was good.

I moved one battery out of the large section of the tool box and turned the existing one, for clearance to add the second pump. I wired one battery per pump and jumped the batteries together. I am going to run both controllers for independent use of each pump or both.

I will be all in for about $600 v/s $1200 for the double pump, plus what they don't furnish for the install.

View attachment 720070View attachment 720071View attachment 720072View attachment 720073

With this setup do you see any more grunt in the rams? My Texas Pride with dual ram is extremely slow but seems weak for having 2 15k rams under it. Always have to start with a farm jack to get the bed raised. If it had just a little more in it would be what I’m looking for but also it takes 2 minutes to run the bed up. It moves 5 gallons of fluid to move to the upright position.

 

[nisaacs]

With this setup do you see any more grunt in the rams? My Texas Pride with dual ram is extremely slow but seems weak for having 2 15k rams under it. Always have to start with a farm jack to get the bed raised. If it had just a little more in it would be what I’m looking for but also it takes 2 minutes to run the bed up. It moves 5 gallons of fluid to move to the upright position.

I don't think the pumps have any more pressure, just more volume/flow. I think the standard is 3200 psi up and 1500 psi down. When the bed is down and the cylinders are horizontal, is where they all struggle.

My PJ has the lift system about 2' ahead of center, it will lift pretty much anything. However, my Lamar is mounted in the center of the bed and it won't lift a heavy load, especially if it is loaded too far forward. They are both scissors lift.

I think Texas Pride uses a 1.7 gpm pump, so it probably is slow. The standard is 2 gpm. They are all slow, especially the telescopic lift, but they will lift anything, since the cylinder is always vertical.

Diamond C and KTI developed a 3 gpm pump for the telescopic lift to help speed it up. Not sure why they didn't go for more yet. I bought one for my Lamar. I like it, about 50% faster up but since it is only gravity down, it is slow coming down. I just live with it, since there is no battery drain. I think I can speed that up if I change the load control valve or maybe even drill it out a little bit. I still have to dig into that. Too fast and it will overflow the tank.

You might install a pressure gauge and check your pressure. Picture of my 3 gpm pump. The motor on a standard pump is 1.6 kw, this one is 2.2.

 

[Machz17]

I don't think the pumps have any more pressure, just more volume/flow. I think the standard is 3200 psi up and 1500 psi down. When the bed is down and the cylinders are horizontal, is where they all struggle.

My PJ has the lift system about 2' ahead of center, it will lift pretty much anything. However, my Lamar is mounted in the center of the bed and it won't lift a heavy load, especially if it is loaded too far forward. They are both scissors lift.

I think Texas Pride uses a 1.7 gpm pump, so it probably is slow. The standard is 2 gpm. They are all slow, especially the telescopic lift, but they will lift anything, since the cylinder is always vertical.

Diamond C and KTI developed a 3 gpm pump for the telescopic lift to help speed it up. Not sure why they didn't go for more yet. I bought one for my Lamar. I like it, about 50% faster up but since it is only gravity down, it is slow coming down. I just live with it, since there is no battery drain. I think I can speed that up if I change the load control valve or maybe even drill it out a little bit. I still have to dig into that. Too fast and it will overflow the tank.

You might install a pressure gauge and check your pressure. Picture of my 3 gpm pump. The motor on a standard pump is 1.6 kw, this one is 2.2.

View attachment 873880

Thanks for the info, I believe mine has the 2.2 motor but I wonder if my pump is small. I was talking with my local hydraulic guy quickly one day and it sounds like the 2.2 is a bigger motor than he can get or has.

 

[nisaacs]

Diamond C and KTI developed a 3 gpm pump for the telescopic lift to help speed it up. Not sure why they didn't go for more yet. I bought one for my Lamar. I like it, about 50% faster up but since it is only gravity down, it is slow coming down. I just live with it, since there is no battery drain. I think I can speed that up if I change the load control valve or maybe even drill it out a little bit. I still have to dig into that. Too fast and it will overflow the tank.

I went ahead and modified my load control valve for more flow. Oem is 2 GPM. When I added the higher volume pump I left the valve alone.

I was feeling dangerous, so I dilled it out. I went 2/64's more, from 1/16 or maybe metric, not sure. Empty, it is at least twice as fast, this is gravity down. It also goes up at least 50% faster. On a cold day, this is going to really help speed it up. I still have to test it with a load but I think it will be fine. I do have a spare oem valve if I need to modify it and start over.

 

[ptsg]

I went ahead and modified my load control valve for more flow. Oem is 2 GPM. When I added the higher volume pump I left the valve alone.

I was feeling dangerous, so I dilled it out. I went 2/64's more, from 1/16 or maybe metric, not sure. Empty, it is at least twice as fast, this is gravity down. It also goes up at least 50% faster. On a cold day, this is going to really help speed it up. I still have to test it with a load but I think it will be fine. I do have a spare oem valve if I need to modify it and start over.

View attachment 874489

You could probably ditch that fitting entirely and use one of these instead: 1/4 NPT 10.5 GPM DYNAMIC JPFC-1/4-NPT In-Line Flow Control | Dynamic | Brands | www.surpluscenter.com

This will provide full flow in one direction (like lifting the bed) while providing adjustable flow in the other directions (like lowering the bed). Basically, you could set how fast the bed lowers with this valve, while lifting at max speed.

The restrictor that comes with the pump will restrict flow in both directions which is less than desirable.

 

[Rustyiron]

I always fantasized about having a "wet line" run to the rear of a "little " truck. My little f450 got a pto pump when I put it together and the valve/tank wouldn't be too hard to plumb in a sister tank . Imagine a winch on a g/n or a real pump and power for a dump trailer. Lift gates, little cranes, hyd trailer jacks.... let your imagination run.

 

[Machz17]

With the bigger load control valves, won’t that make it hard to get the desired pressure from the pump? Or make it work harder? Why wouldn’t the oem do this in the first place? It seems so simple yet what’s the drawback.

 

[nisaacs]

With the bigger load control valves, won’t that make it hard to get the desired pressure from the pump? Or make it work harder? Why wouldn’t the oem do this in the first place? It seems so simple yet what’s the drawback.

The resistance from the lift cylinder creates the pressure. The smaller the orifice the less fluid can pass through, which can cause excess pressure due to volume control. There is a fine line between too small and too big. Too small can cause a bottle neck in the pump flow specs and too big can drop the bed too fast. Empty, you can drop fairly quick but if you still have a partial load, it can fall too quick and hard when it gets to the bottom.

It is also a safety valve in the event you blow a lift hose. The valve will still control the fall. Without it, the bed would fall so fast it would destroy itself on impact with the frame.

In general, the oem sizes the valve with the pump flow. In my case, I changed from a 2 gpm pump to a 3, so I need a slightly larger valve to take advantage of the extra flow.

 

[Machz17]

That makes sense. It’s a safety feature but it’s too safe because it’s from the oem. If that makes sense haha. I’ll have to ask my local guy about this. Hopefully get one installed.

 

[Machz17]

Is there a place to get a bigger pump without a motor? I feel Like the motor I have is good enough for a bigger pump or would this orifice take the place of a bigger pump per say

 

[ptsg]

Those adjustable flow control valves will still provide the necessary safety in case of an hose blow out, as long as one doesn't leave it all the way open, which shouldn't really happen unless people like their beds hitting the frame hard.

It still regulates the flow when the bed is lowering, but provides full flow while lifting make for faster cycle times.