Pushing over dying pines with FEL

[LittleBlueTractor]

I lost a lot of trees on my place during our recent drought down here in south Texas. Some of the pines are over 24" in diameter at their base and NOT in a safe place. I've seen videos of people using their loader to just push over some pretty big trees. My understanding is that one of the biggest risks is from the root ball popping up under the tractor. I'm sure there are other risks and would appreciate any comments for or against. (OR any other ideas for that matter.)

My CUT is an LS S3010. It's a little less than 30 HP, but pretty stout in low gear and fairly heavy with the grapple and cutter installed - probably around 4.5K lbs. FYI: I haven't had much experience with a chainsaw.

 

[deereman75]

I lost a lot of trees on my place during our recent drought down here in south Texas. Some of the pines are over 24" in diameter at their base and NOT in a safe place. I've seen videos of people using their loader to just push over some pretty big trees. My understanding is that one of the biggest risks is from the root ball popping up under the tractor. I'm sure there are other risks and would appreciate any comments for or against. (OR any other ideas for that matter.)

My CUT is an LS S3010. It's a little less than 30 HP, but pretty stout in low gear and fairly heavy with the grapple and cutter installed - probably around 4.5K lbs. FYI: I haven't had much experience with a chainsaw.

I would say for a 24 inch tree, you are WAY too small. My uncle has an 80 hp skid steer, and it might not be able to push that big of a tree over. I would say unless you want to get some big heavy equipment, get good with a chainsaw, or hire someone to do it.

 

[Thomas]

Could be risky,I'd drop the trees first one less headache...leave about foot or so can push or pull.

Never know what root ball has w/in,rock etc. can cost $$'s in repairs.

 

[General Lee]

I think your tractor is to small for that job. I would cut the tree down leaving a 3 or 4 foot trunk. Then start plucking around the roots with FEL and push or pull on the trunk.

If the tree has the possibility of hitting a structure I understand your concern about using a chainsaw. With a little practice you can control the direction of fall easily. Cut a < notch on the side of the where you want it to fall. Depending on tree size, notch only needs to be 2-3 inches deep. Now on the opposite side of the notch, cut straight in 1 -2 inches above the notch. The < notch acts as a hinge as you make your back cut.

Another thing you can do if you have a second person is have them push on the tree as you start making your back cut towards the notch. Having a set of forks on the FEL will help ensure the tree won't fall to the left or right.

When you start ramming and pushing trees with the FEL, its hard on the tractor and unsafe for you. Small healthy trees go over easily, but when you got to keep working on big one, tops or limbs can break off and come crashing down on you.

 

[Verticaltrx]

As others have mentioned, you are way under equipped to push over 24" dia. trees. That size tree is plenty big to give even a 40,000lb track loader a workout if the conditions aren't good. Honestly your tractor is probably only capable of pushing over 8-10" trees, and even as such it takes the right method and conditions.

 

[jones6780]

If you don't have experience felling trees then hire that job out. A 24" tree is not something to practice on.
Russell

 

[Ford tractor]

Two of the most dangerous activities a person can do in the world are farming and forestry. A newb trying to be a lumberjack with a tractor... danger squared!

A 24" pine is heavy enough to crush you quick. A DEAD pine can have branches or even a major part of the top fall back onto you in that tractor. If you don't have a FOPS (Falling Object Protective Structure) which is a full cage able to withstand major impacts -- you are asking for bad things to happen.

I would say you may need to pay a professional to get those trees down if you are not proficient with a chainsaw.

 

[magicheater]

If you don't have experience felling trees then hire that job out. A 24" tree is not something to practice on.
Russell

:thumbsup: Always park your tractor at least 1.5 times the height of the tree AWAY from the tree when felling. Once a tree starts to fall you have NO control.

 

[Short Game]

Yes, 24 inches is pretty large. Too large to push with a 3010 IMO. I might try pulling it, but with enough chain to reach out well over the height of the tree. I would get a ladder and chain them up 15 feet above the ground. If it's tough dry ground, then I might wait for wet ground.

I have a lot of experience with a chainsaw, and I've gotten in just about every kind of trouble felling trees that I could. That doesn't usually stop me though. But I do get a pro when I am too scared to try a particular tree.

Be careful, err on the side of caution.

 

[k0ua]

I have pushed over quite a few "trees" with a tractor of the same capabilitys that you have. but when I say tree, I am talking about 3 or 4 inchers. maybe 25 foot high. The trees need to be in good shape not dead. Never ever push on a dead tree with your loader unless you want a limb to fall on you. I have pushed over trees up to 10 inches, but only after a rain has fell about 2 or 3 days previously. So the the ground is fairly good on top for your traction but still pretty wet at the root level of the trees. Then you must be mindful of the rootball coming up under your axle. on a 24 inch tree, you need to cut it at about 5 foot level then start digging out the roots, then hook a long chain on it and pull it over if you can. If you can't, then keep on digging. Good luck and work safe.

James K0UA

 

[grsthegreat]

Ive seen people pushing trees with FEl and the tree split in half with the top of the tree coming down on the cab.

thats why i hired a large excavator and operator to fell my large ones. fast, clean and safe

 

[Don87]

The roots on pines are generally shallow, and the root ball will extend out past the lower limbs.

On a 24 inch diameter pine, that would put the root ball at 8 feet or so away from the trunk. Which means that if you were capable of pushing the tree over............the root ball will flip your tractor. I can almost guarantee it.

 

[LittleBlueTractor]

Thanks for all the advice guys. The needles are still on the trees, but they are mostly brown and dying. I've never seen a pine recover after it gets that bad. The only experience I have with a chainsaw was from a really big water oak in my yard after hurricane Ike a few years ago. My "nice" neighbor volunteered to help me get rid of it because it fell from his yard. He ended up helping me cut up all the limbs that were suitable for firewood (for his fireplace) and leaving me to deal with all the big stuff alone. By the time I figured out he wasn't coming back, the tree was pretty dead. So I bought a chainsaw and that's when I discovered dead wood is harder to cut than the green stuff.

Actually I do have another option. It will involve some work, but I can move my stuff (no permanent structures) out of harm's way and just let them rot and fall. I didn't want to do that because it will take so long and I really like the location. Plus there's a good chance they will damage other trees around them on their random way down. I'm now leaning toward cutting a > in the direction I want them to fall and then cutting from the other side. How deep should the > be? I'm thinking 1/4 to 1/3 in. Probably move my stuff anyway even if I do try cutting them down.

 

[Don87]

Thanks for all the advice guys. The needles are still on the trees, but they are mostly brown and dying. I've never seen a pine recover after it gets that bad. The only experience I have with a chainsaw was from a really big water oak in my yard after hurricane Ike a few years ago. My "nice" neighbor volunteered to help me get rid of it because it fell from his yard. He ended up helping me cut up all the limbs that were suitable for firewood (for his fireplace) and leaving me to deal with all the big stuff alone. By the time I figured out he wasn't coming back, the tree was pretty dead. So I bought a chainsaw and that's when I discovered dead wood is harder to cut than the green stuff.

Actually I do have another option. It will involve some work, but I can move my stuff (no permanent structures) out of harm's way and just let them rot and fall. I didn't want to do that because it will take so long and I really like the location. Plus there's a good chance they will damage other trees around them on their random way down. I'm now leaning toward cutting a > in the direction I want them to fall and then cutting from the other side. How deep should the > be? I'm thinking 1/4 to 1/3 in. Probably move my stuff anyway even if I do try cutting them down.

If you've never felled trees before, and are in a tight area............don't attempt it, only bad things will happen.

I used to be a logger, I'm all too familiar with the dangers.


But if you are adamant about doing it yourself.........do some studying first:

http://forestry.about.com/od/chainsaws/ss/fell_tree.htm


http://www.wikihow.com/Fell-a-Tree


http://www.ehow.com/how_4893933_fall-tree-direction.html


Felling pines: http://www.gardenguides.com/109234-fell-pine-trees.html

 

[CharlieS]

Simply cutting a V notch in a tree doesn't guarentee the direction of fall. Things like wind, which way the tree is leaning, which side of the tree has the most weight from branch growth, all affect the direction it will go independant of V notch/backcut direction. The best assistance though still no guarantee of fell direction with a questionable tree is drive wooden or plastic wedges into the backcut to assist the tree in starting to move in the desired direction.
Have the proper safety gear in use and be sure to have a clear path to run in any direction when a tree starts to move, in case it goes in an unplanned direction.

As for pushing them over with any small tractor, it'd never happen. Same for pulling or pushing stumps out. you wont have the traction, weight or horsepower needed to accomplish that task based on my experience. We have a 955 cat dozer and having tried on stumps as small as maybe 16 inches, and 3 to 4 foot tall, it wont budge them as a rule.

 

[LittleBlueTractor]

If you've never felled trees before, and are in a tight area............don't attempt it, only bad things will happen.

I used to be a logger, I'm all too familiar with the dangers.


But if you are adamant about doing it yourself.........do some studying first:

How to Fell a Tree Using a Chainsaw


How to Fell a Tree: 14 steps (with pictures)


How to Fell a Tree in Any Direction | eHow.com


Felling pines: How to Fell Pine Trees | Garden Guides

Thank you for the links Don. I'll do a lot of research first, but I probably will try to drop them myself. The area won't be tight after I move my stuff, but at least maybe I can avoid damaging some of the nicer trees I have left. You wouldn't believe how bad it is. I honestly think I'm losing about 1/3 of my pines. See:

Texas drought kills as many as half a billion trees

I also like the wedge driving thing Charlie mentioned.

 

[roman]

I agree you should have someone else (professional) cut them for you. Maybe have him drop a few (The more dangerous ones) while you watch. You will then see the danger we are trying to portray for you.
Then if you feel comfortable you can fell one. You will have enough work just cleaning up the felled trees. The dangers you will encounter then are just as bad but different in nature. I take it you don't have a lot of saw experience...
Limbing large trees can be scary too.
My tractor has a steel cab. Once I tried to push over a dead maple stem ten-twelve inches at the stump and 35 feet high. I suceeded in snapping the top eight foot section off. It landed sideways on my cab, ending up straddling the loader arms. IF I WAS IN A OPEN CAB... not good.
You can learn a lot from a professional in a day and the $ will be well spent. Tackle the big ones after you have some experience.

 

[BeeferMan]

As others have said, felling the trees is a much better option that pushing them over. Widow makers would be your biggest danger - you're likely to survive having your tractor flip, you're much less likely to survive a large branch falling a great distance and dropping on your squash. And those falling limbs are almost a certainty if your using under-sized equipment, as instead of a clean push over you're going to be rocking the tree to get is loose and tipped.

And if you have no experience felling trees, felling dead tress is *NOT* the the best learning situation! Dead trees will often snap rather than hinge, and as stated above, the danger of widow makers is much higher.

 

[Don87]

Thank you for the links Don. I'll do a lot of research first, but I probably will try to drop them myself. The area won't be tight after I move my stuff, but at least maybe I can avoid damaging some of the nicer trees I have left. You wouldn't believe how bad it is. I honestly think I'm losing about 1/3 of my pines. See:

Texas drought kills as many as half a billion trees

I also like the wedge driving thing Charlie mentioned.

Your welcome.

Pines are rough to cut. The limbs are generally low to the ground, and when the tree falls......it can roll in any direction.

Always plan and clear your escape route first.

Use plastic wedges made by Stihl. Do not use metal ones, one touch with the saw and you'll be sharpening for a long, long time.

Look at the saw closely. There sould be a 'felling sight' on it. Once you learn to use it, your gold:thumbsup:

Be careful when limbing after the tree is down......the tree will roll...........I once got wedged between two downed trees that way. The only thing that saved me from being crushed was that I turned the saw.........and the bar stopped the rolling tree. Had to wait for the skidder to come back to winch the tree away from me.

 

[Hoosier Hay Man]

Pushing over dead trees is risky. They have been known to break in half and come backwards. We had a neighbor killed 20 years ago pushing over trees with a Case backhoe.