Put wrong viscosity in my Tundra truck. Forget about it?

[GManBart]

Thanks for the advice, but re-read the second paragraph of my first post.

Moving on, this horse has been throughly flogged........

In that paragraph you said clearances, but described tolerances.....whatever, it's not really relevant.

People can throw theories around all they want, but crankshaft and rod bearing ideal clearances for passenger cars/trucks haven't changed significantly in decades. Something like .001 to .0025 is pretty standard and has been for ages. Yes, manufacturers get closer to whatever ideal spec they list for their bearings, but it's not like they're suddenly building engines with .0005" bearing clearances which require thinner oil.

 

[TMGT]

In that paragraph you said clearances, but described tolerances.....whatever, it's not really relevant.

People can throw theories around all they want, but crankshaft and rod bearing ideal clearances for passenger cars/trucks haven't changed significantly in decades. Something like .001 to .0025 is pretty standard and has been for ages. Yes, manufacturers get closer to whatever ideal spec they list for their bearings, but it's not like they're suddenly building engines with .0005" bearing clearances which require thinner oil.

I'm not really sure what your reading but it's your opinion I guess.

As for clearances over the years, they have significantly been reduced, many cases by about half. I spent a lot of time looking up clearances and tolerances for various engines so I got to see it first hand. We usually kept tolerance to a couple tenth spending on journal size, so a one and a half thou is a big spread.
And yes there are sub .001 clearances out there.

The other thing people forget is that oil technology has come a long way, along with engine development and improved manufacturing so it's not always apples to apples.

Either way your not going to screw yourself by running manufacturer recommended as it's their warranty and reputation they put on the line.
The recommended is usually the most optimised for the largest application base.

 

[sw99]

In my 0w20 spec'd Civic, I do a summer run of 3 quarts 15w40 Rotella or Delo and 1 quart of MMO. Car doesn't even notice it and It does a fantastic cleaning. 5w30 in lieu of 0w20 wont hurt a thing.

 

[Copperhead]

I am not convinced of the tighter tolerances or clearances thing either. And viscosity is not a "thickness". So the any relation is non existent. Viscosity is resistance to flow, not thickness. Basic science and long ago established by Sir Isaac Newton. And the real major difference that means anything in oil as it pertains to modern engines has more to do with shearing forces. An oil that is more resistant to shearing forces is better, along with a low NOACK (burn off vaporization rate). Some 20w do a pretty good job in this regard, especially in the 5w20 category. 10w30 seems to have the edge in all of this in the 30w vis category.

And it is required, that what an OEM uses in CAFE testing must be what they recommend for oil viscosity to owners. And a 20w does provide a slight edge on fuel economy numbers, primarily due to lower resistance to flow. So OEM recommendations are as much influenced by government testing as it is about practical application. Many of the OEM's engines that recommend 20w in N. America also have 30w recommendations in other areas of the globe. So the idea that a 20w is recommended because of tolerances is a bit specious.

And 20% of any motor oil is additives. That additive formula alone has more impact on overall oil effectiveness in an engine than viscosity.

I am not convinced that a GM engine built in 2016 that recommends a 20w oil is tighter on clearances and tolerances than another 2016 GM engine that has a 30w recommendation. And this situation exists. They are using many similar internal components, machined on the same equipment, from the same third party suppliers. Just the application is different. For instance, a 6.0L engine in their 2500 is not subject to CAFE testing standards to which a 6.2L in their 1500 series is. So the oil recommendation requirements are different, with the 6.2 having a 20w recommendation and the 6.0 having a 30w recommendation.

 

[RalphVa]

I went the other way on my Tacoma. It calls for 5w30. I'm using 5w or 0w20 M1 in it now. The normal use mpg has gone up a couple mpg. Trip mileage is still about 28. Think the difference is the significantly higher oil viscosity at startup temperature. The "0w" or "5w" determinations are obtained by the viscosity at the Cold Cranking Simulation (CCS) temperature of -35 to -40 (C and F are same @ -40). So a "w30" oil will have a higher startup viscosity at our normal -10 to 40 F winter temperatures than a "w20" oil.

Most engine wear occurs at startup. I'm sure the 0w20 oil will give almost instant availability to the valve train at startup vs. probably a few seconds delay from the 5w30.

 

[Copperhead]

I have to agree. Been beat like a rented mule.

 

[TomSeller]

Better tolerances, clearances, or whatever it is, is sure making these new engines run smooth for a long time. Makes sense the oil would need to be up to the task

 

[Texasmark]

I never said any of that. I said things like ideal bearing clearance gaps today aren't any tighter than they were many years ago. Production tolerances, meaning variation from ideal, has gotten better but that's largely a different topic.

People keep saying "tighter tolerances" but they clearly don't understand the definition of the term.

We aren't talking about your 2009 Ram, we're talking about a Toyota Tundra. Toyota gives no similar warning about using heavier oil, and you might note that even Chrysler doesn't say it's going to damage the engine.

I responded to this posting of yours:

"Originally Posted by GManBart View Post
Further, the whole "tight tolerances" thing is largely hogwash."

Speaks for itself.

Then there's this you posted:

"We aren't talking about your 2009 Ram, we're talking about a Toyota Tundra. Toyota gives no similar warning about using heavier oil, and you might note that even Chrysler doesn't say it's going to damage the engine."

Agree RAM says:

"My 2009 Ram Hemi P/U's owner's manual specifically said that the oil pump in the engine was designed for 5W-20 and that if you used a heavier oil it could impede the ability of the engine to do the cylinder drop economy function."

Yes that's not admitting to damage but to potential non-functioning of a benefit of current engine technology which is in high demand when fuel prices skyrocket like was the case back then, and could cause unnecessary, frivolous warranty claims.

However, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that thin oil saves on wear and tear on initial startup which is advertised to be the #1 cause of engine wear....aka engine damage!

And this from you:

"People keep saying "tighter tolerances" but they clearly don't understand the definition of the term."

Scuse me? I think the difference between 0.001" and 0.0001" is easy enough for the average Joe/Jane to recognize as 10x tighter tolerancing.

 

[powerscol]

I have been reading this "Beating a dead Horse thread" and being a little old (old/fat/gray/bald dude :thumbsup Ill put a bit of what history I know into clearances and tolerances, First my definitions of tolerances and clearance dimension.. Clearance is the distance set in the engineering design between two parts. One of my mowers wants 0.1 clearance on a knife, but says it can range from .08 to .12 - that is the tolerance spread. So the tolerance is the range of variance from the clearance dimension.

Now in days past all machine tools were made using calibers or patterns and as the equipment wore out over time dimensions change. Once it exceeded tolerances the pattern or tool was changed out. A part could only be built to as close a design dimension as the tools used to make it. Everything was mechanical. Today computers/lasers do a lot of measuring/cutting so measurements can be more precise. That in itself does not lead to tighter clearances, but with modern materials and oil it can. As things can be made more precise, the tolerances for making and item can be tighter too.

An example I can use is old steam engines. I had a tour a while back of an engine works. They had to hand make a lot of the replacement parts. An example is the brass/bronze drive bushings. They used to measure the axle with calibers and then drill the bushings with the closest drill bit. They now use a laser to map the drive axle and use a CNC to mill the part. They can account for uneven axle wear. Whats interesting is they must use the old clearances to get the oilers to work (tried to reduce and failed) but the tolerances in making the parts are better. What was fun to watch was how the bushings got pressed in some of the housing the old school way with the bushing on ice and the housing heated red hot, then using an old screw press with leather wrapped parts so as not to mar the bushing.

Now today with modern designs and tight clearances it is import to follow the manufacturers oil recommendations. I have two Ford escapes, a 02 and a new 2016. The 02 has 4 oil choices depending on operating temperatures, while the wife's new one is 1 oil year round (not sure,,but is is low viscosity). During our deliver instructions it was stressed to only use the recommended viscosity, different brands were OK, but to make sure to only use the specified viscosity. We have the dealer do all the service as they offer great deals - every 5th change is free and they always have coupons for reduced prices the other time or will give the discount price for being a customer. I use the free one for my F350 6.0

Hope this helps
Happy new year

 

[WayneJessie]

The reason for the 0W20 is called for in the newer engines is because of the tight engine component tolerances. Using heavier weight oil will limit the flow to critical areas in the engine. I have two vehicles that call for 0W20 and that is all I use...in fact I only use 0W20 synthetic.

That's not quite accurate. I 've been a Toyota tech for 25 years and bearing clearances for their engines have not changed in that time period. 0W20 is for fuel economy gains primarily. As a matter of fact, most Toyota engines that are being shipped to EU countries are spec'd for 5W40 oils and they have the same clearances/tolerances as their USA counterparts. Honda actually builds the K24 engines here in the USA and ships them to EU countries to be installed there. They recommend 0w20 for them here and 5W40 for EU use. It's all about CAFE figures here in the USA. Either weight oil (if changed when needed) will make the Toyota engine run longer than one would care to keep the truck.