PVC Shower Pan Liner Install

[rtimgray]

A quick question for you fella's that may have done this before. We are installing a new walk-in shower in our house addition, and we have reached the point of installing the shower liner. I've got several books and looked up online "how to install shower pan" and I keep getting two different results in regard to one particular item:

Do you use adhesive to glue the pan liner down to the (cured) sloped mortar bed?

Even the Oatey instructions for installation mentions

"If desired an adhesive can be used to bond pan liner to the floor and curb. Prior to use of adhesive, confirm compatability of adhesive to the pan liner."

What's funny too is that in a couple of the books that I have, they use the exact same pictures, but one of them includes a picture showing adhesive and installing the pan that way, while the other book omits that picture and that step.

What have you guys done in the past with what results? I would think a slow-setting adhesive would be helpful in keeping the pan liner where it needs to be while I install the mortar bed above it, but I've never done this before. If I do use an adhesive, what type should I use? In all of the information I've found, nothing is ever called out. In the pictures, it looks a lot like the pre-mixed universal tile adhesive, but I have no idea if that is what it is.

I would really appreciate comments and suggestions on this. I definately don't want to get this wrong.

Thanks.

Good luck and take care.

 

[EddieWalker]

I do not glue the liner down. I like to put it out in the sun for as long as possible, then I lay it out so I get a foot of liner going up the walls and then I staple the top of the liner into place. I do not attach it to the drain right away. After putting Hardie on the walls, I tile the walls first, then I come back and work on the floor. Fist I cut out the liner for the drain, then I adjust the height of the drain so I get a good slope when I install the mortar bed. Be sure to use a bonding agent the day before you put down your mortar bed. I mix 1 to 5 portland cement with play sand. The trick is to get the mixture as dry as possible. Too much water and you have a mess, not enough and it doesn't cure. Trowel your slop into the mortar bed, wait a day and then tile the floor.

Eddie

 

[gsganzer]

Have you thought about having someone local make you a custom cultured marble shower base? This is what I did on both of my recent bathroom remodels and I can't imagine doing it any other way. I think it cost me less than $500 ea installed with a curb at the door. Both showers were corner showers approx. 54" x 54". The base comes with a flange that runs up the wall approx. 6" that you tile over. It makes for a continuous and seamless pan with proper slope and slip resistant. You can get solid colors, swirled or they even have cultured granite too. It's worth looking into and is a huge time saver.

 

[rtimgray]

Thanks for the replies. I hadn't looked into the idea of a marble shower base, but I'm already past that point now. The sloped mortar bed is already installed, so my next step is the liner.

Do you guys have a mortar bed both above and below the liner? The instructions that I have indicate to install a base of mortar to establish the slope to the drain, then install the liner, then install an approximately 1.5" thick bed of mortar, then tile on top of that.

Thanks for the help so far.

 

[EddieWalker]

I rough in the grade under the liner and then get it exact after the liner goes in.

Eddie

 

[rtimgray]

I found a video on youtube showing the installation of a shower pan (it was the Oatey-made video). They showed in it using a Liquid Nails product under the liner, but did not specify which product. They indicated to call their technical assistance number to find out what the proper, compatible product it. I called and left it on speaker phone while I was on hold, and gave up after 30 minutes.

I'm going to try again today. I checked the Liquid nails website but could not find any product that specifically said it was compatible with PVC liners, although i bet a lot of them probably would work.

Also, do you guys put in the metal lathe in mud base above the liner? Again, some of the instructions that I read say to make the mud bed above the liner about 1.5" think, and put a layer of metal lathe in the middle of it. I assume that this is similar to the concept of wire matting or rebar in concrete. However, I think as dry as the mud is for installation, I would probably have to put in about 3/4" thick of mud, lay the lathe on it, and top it with the other 3/4". I've also got some instructions that say nothing about putting lathe in. Just wondering what might be common.

Thanks again for the help. Good luck and take care.

 

[EddieWalker]

I don't put any metal into my mortar beds.

Eddie

 

[Egon]

Try googling Shluter systems.

Site may give you some information

 

[rtimgray]

Eddie - thanks for your perspective. Looks like something that may be unnecessary.

Egon - From what I can tell, the Shluter system is a similar but different series of components than what I am using. If I remember right, I looked at some of their stuff before, but it was more expensive and i couldn't really see a big benefit to it (although maybe in their instructions they indicate what to use to glue a liner down!). Thanks for the suggestion - still some good stuff on their website.

Thanks again fellas.

 

[MNBobcat]

The first thing you do is put down tar paper on the sub floor and cut it out around the drain. Then you scrip a line around the perimeter of the floor at a height equal to 1/4 inch slope per foot. My drain sat 1/4 inch above the floor. My shower is 2 1/2 feet from the center of the drain to one wall. So a 1/4 inch per foot over 2 1/2 feet is about 5/8 of an inch. I rounded it to 3/4 of an inch. Because my drain sat 1/4 inch above the floor you add that to the 3/4 inch and scribe a line around the perimeter at 1 inch above the floor.

Then you put down your masonry pre-pan. Building it to your 1 inch mark at the outside and sloping to the 1/4 inch high drain.

The idea of the pre pan is to provide that 1/4 inch slope to the drain. A liner sits on top of the pre-pan and then you do a masonry floor on top of the liner. The liner doesn't get bonded. You can't learn what you need to from this forum. I would highly recommend watching a bunch of youtube videos on the subject.

This is what I did (pre-pan) last night.



I'll scrape it with my trowel this morning and smooth it out a lot more. That will remove any ridges. I was pretty tapped last night when I finished it.