Question about old dams

[AlanB]

I am looking at a property that has a man made pond on it. The pond is about 1/2 to 1 acre in size. It is below another larger pond.

Somewhere in the distant past, they built dams across large runoff ditches to create these ponds. I am not sure (but am trying to find out) exactly when it was done.

The dam on the property I am looking to buy (and it would also be my driveway) has numerous 6" to 8" caliper trees growning on the banks of it.

From reading the other lake / dam / pond discussions, I gather the dams should be kept clean and grassed without trees penetrating them.

I would have thought that the trees etc and their root structure would have helped to stabilize the bank, but maybe it is because they provide channells for the water to run is the problem?

So, things I should look out for or be wary of? Who to contact in my area that can look at a dam and give me an evaluation (cheap / free or Government preferred)

Thanks for any specific insights, I am off to read the other pond / lake / dam threads and see what I can glean from there.

I will try and get pictures this weekend if the weather clears, it was pouring last night when we looked, and looks like more of the same today.

 

[dmccarty]

Alan,

Trees are a no no in a dam. My memory says that the live tree is bad since the roots can cause the dam to leak. I could really see a problem if the tree was blown down or if it was cut. Once cut the stump will rot out and then you do have a nice hole.

The state and/or the Feds can help you with dams. I have looked into it a few times over the years to see if we could create some ponds. Years ago the farm I worked on had a good sized lake that was built with the help of government funds. Not sure if that is still possible. I tried to find the farm with some Sat photos which should have been easy since the farm was on the Ohio river. Best I can tell they took out the dam since it ended a few hundred feet from the river and built a boat marina.

I use to clean the dam, and it was pretty long, with the old Mark I weed wacker. You know the one. The one powered by cheap teenager labor.

Anywho, I was able to google and finds a fair amount of info on building/getting up dams. If there is a dam ABOVE the pond that would be a concern. On some land I previously owned there where three/four ponds/dams that cascaded from one to the other. We had a big concern with one dam failing and causing the whole chain to fail which would have washed out our bridge/culverts. Replacing the bridge/culverts was big dollars.

Later,
Dan

 

[EddieWalker]

Alan,

What to do with trees on a dam is really gonna depend on the situation. Without seeing the dam, the location of the trees and knowing what the roots have done, it's too tough to make a call one way or another.

Problems with trees are that the roots will seek out the water in the pond. Anamals like to eat these roots and dig tunnels along the roots. If and when the tree dies, the roots rot out and you are left with tunnels through your dam for the water to escape.

Leaving the tree in and keeping it healthy means the roots wont rot and create those tunnels.

Taking out the tree is the ideal solution, but you have to dig out the roots and compact the hole.

This can be expensive and not allways needed. There are allot of dams out there in the world with trees growing on them that don't leak and never will.

Good luck,
Eddie

 

[TNhobbyfarmer]

Alan.....I have a farm in Stewart County, TN. Coincedentally, I spoke with the NRCS office in Clarksville yesterday. I am considering building a pond on my land. The NRCS is a sister agency to the FSA (Farm Services Agency). One of the things they do is assist people with ponds. The service is free and their specialist will meet you at your property and give advice. The fact that you don't yet own the property may be a problem. I'm not sure.

The pond specialist in Calrksville is Lewis Boyd. The phone # is 931-368-0252extension 3. Lewis wasn't in the office yesterday but the person I talked to(lady, not sure of her name) was helpful. She took all my information and Lewis is supposed to call me next week to arrange a time to meet me at the farm.

I understand that in the past it was quite easy to get gov't financial assistance with pond expenses. Apparently that isn't the case anymore but at least the advice is free. Good luck.

 

[tallyho8]

Dams are similar to levees in the New Orleans area. Since the severe damage to the levee system due to Hurricane Katrina, the Corps of Engineers is rebuilding the levees and removing ALL trees on or even close to the levees to prevent levee destruction if one of these trees is blown down in a storm because the gaping hole where the root ball was would quickly enlarge threatening the levee system.

 

[AlanB]

Great minds must think alike, after I posted I started calling around, and Mr. Boyd is supposed to call me next week to set up a visit. Not sure about the ownership part, but I did make it explicitly clear that I am looking at buying the land.

I kind of have a two fold fear, one part is that I have problems with the dam, the other part is, someone comes along, and say's Oh, that dam was not permitted etc. and then I am liable for something, yes, I know I can go to court and argue this or that, but would rather just avoid the whole thing if it looks that way.

What I have found so far through TDEC is that it looks like it would be classed on all counts as a Farm Pond, and exempt from the regulations. Both becuase of size (not enough water to count) and because of use, ie, farm pond, non commercial, wholly owned by the property owner.

One other happy thought though is that if the ones above wash out, I would have a tough time getting off my property.

Cleaning that thing up and building the house / shop may be just the reason to have a backhoe though Hanna said she could see it in my eyes.

 

[TNhobbyfarmer]

I talked to Mr. Boyd this morning. We are meeting Jan. 19. If you meet him prior to that, I would be curious as to how the meeting went.

 

[AlanB]

He called me this morning as well, and I think I covered what I needed on the phone. He was very helpfull but it basicly boiled down too in his experience, that when the dams had decent sized trees growing on them, that it was just a matter of time, until they failed.

He said that the most practical thing has been to clear the old dam materials, then rebuild new as often they were not done correctly to start with.

The Real estate agent said the dam was leaking, but was not on the disclosure form... go figure.

At $10,000 an acre, I think we just need to keep looking.

 

[SunnyDaye]

What to do with trees on a dam is really gonna depend on the situation. Without seeing the dam, the location of the trees and knowing what the roots have done, it's too tough to make a call one way or another.

Problems with trees are that the roots will seek out the water in the pond. Anamals like to eat these roots and dig tunnels along the roots. If and when the tree dies, the roots rot out and you are left with tunnels through your dam for the water to escape.

Leaving the tree in and keeping it healthy means the roots wont rot and create those tunnels.

Alan, I have a dam on my farm property that we drive across on a daily basis, and it too has several large trees on both sides of it. Before I purchased the property, I had a friend who inspects dams in for the State of Florida come and check it out. He mentioned that trees are a typical no-no if you are building a new dam;however he suggested I not do anything with the trees unless one was to come down then deal with it and not replace it. Pic attached. In Goodlettesville,Tennesee my son's church owned the deed to a small dam in the area (long story) The authorities made the church responsible for the dam's maintenace and they were forced to pay a high fee for local officials to come out and "inspect" the dam on yearly basis. Ican't remember if it was each year or every 2 or 5 years or what, but I doi know the church could not afford it. I would check with your local extension office before I did anything.