Question for haymakers

[RFB]

A gentleman that I know in the local area grows some of his own hay (many of us run some cattle in these parts) for feed.
He still makes "stupid bales" (small 80-100lb) and I mentioned that I use (buy) larger bales (700-800 lb) and it is much easier to move (hay spike) and feed (big bites with bucket and grapple jaw).

He said that he would like to switch to big bales but he did not know if his tractor was powerful enough (68 pto Massey).

I told him that I would field this question on this forum for him (He does not do the net too much...he said he is too busy making stupid bales.)

What do you gentlemen say; does he have enough hp?

 

[D7E]

Depends on the age of the tractor/how his hyd's are set up etc but theres nothing stupid about small bales . They are our most profitable for the horse market and i think if if just for your own use and you are'nt too big far more convenient , Just a bit more time and labour consuming .
There was a time where we fed 300 hereford cattle with all small square bales ?

 

[AKfish]

There are several farmer's in this area that bale big round bales with tractors in that hp range - JD 3010, JD 5400, etc.

I don't recall the model number of the JD round balers. They're newer models with net wrap and preservative applicators (1). We're working with timothy hay (some brome) but most of the bales are 750lb and less.

I'd think he would do just fine unless he's trying to bale 1200lb alfalfa rounds - (are those "smart" bales..)?

AKfish

 

[rtimgray]

Could the tractor bale larger rounds - I bet it could, but I always like to use the Rev. Lovejoy's answer of "Short answer, yes with an if; Long answer, no with a but."

As far as "stupid bales" - c'mon, man!

All we've ever done is small bales, mostly because we have small herds of cows. I only run about 20-30 head at any given time, and in the winter feed between 5 and 9 bales per day (and we only bale ours at about 50-60 lbs), so I only feed between 250 and 500 lbs per day.

If I set out a large bale, even in a feeder or ring, some would still go to waste (I'm guessing between 20 and 30 percent), so we would have to produce 20 to 30 percent more hay. That takes more land, more fuel, more space, etc. etc.


Additionally, when I have to put an old cow or calf in the barn, I need to have small bales to feed a little at a time, so I would still need some small bales at some point.

Granted, we have to have more labor for a couple of days to put the hay up, but that's just a couple hundred dollars.

I will admit that I do plan on converting to round bales at some point in the future, but that is partly because I've seen the advent of smaller round balers that can make a 500 lb roll, so I won't waste nearly as much (and I might be adding a few cows as well).

Also as a side note - I call the square bales "stupid" bales too!

 

[MMagis]

I agree with rtimgray on al counts. With the right size baler he should be fine. He won't be rolling 1500 lb bales, but he could probably do a 4x4 or maybe even 4x5 if the ground is flat.
I also agree with small squares certainly not being "stupid", except when stacking.
They have their place, and with unlimited time and space I think most people would prefer them. But, they do take more time to feed and much more storage room.

 

[pitt_md]

I am taking the OP to mean he wants to have large squares made and not rounds.
I do not know exactly how much hp it takes to run run a heston or the like but I contract a guy to bale mine into 800 lb bales and he uses a JD 4WD with 200+ HP. I don't know all the options for baling large squares but I don't think a 68 hp machine could even pull one very well let alone run it.

 

[MMagis]

I am taking the OP to mean he wants to have large squares made and not rounds.
I do not know exactly how much hp it takes to run run a heston or the like but I contract a guy to bale mine into 800 lb bales and he uses a JD 4WD with 200+ HP. I don't know all the options for baling large squares but I don't think a 68 hp machine could even pull one very well let alone run it.

I think you may be right. I automatically thought of round bales because large squares aren't done around here.
You could find the specs for any baler on the internet, but I doubt 68hp is enough for large squares.

 

[RFB]

Correct...large square bales weighing about 750lb.

Around these parts very few people use small bales. Most of the year-round ranchers either roll out (3 point roller) large round bales or spike feed from large squares. Small bales are to throw a few flakes to horses, but most folks are using ATV's for ranching. One can still see the occasional horse use when the cattle are driven into the high country but beyond that, its mostly house-pet horses. All the large quantity hay use is big bale.

(Some guys make the 1600 lbs squares and export to Japan and China. Multiple 1 acre hay barns with those bales stacked 25 feet high and loaded/offloaded with tele-handlers and harvested by semi-trucks from the field.)

 

[Allan_Cen_Ont]

Correct...large square bales weighing about 750lb.

Around these parts very few people use small bales. Most of the year-round ranchers either roll out (3 point roller) large round bales or spike feed from large squares. Small bales are to throw a few flakes to horses, but most folks are using ATV's for ranching. One can still see the occasional horse use when the cattle are driven into the high country but beyond that, its mostly house-pet horses. All the large quantity hay use is big bale.

(Some guys make the 1600 lbs squares and export to Japan and China. Multiple 1 acre hay barns with those bales stacked 25 feet high and loaded/offloaded with tele-handlers and harvested by semi-trucks from the field.)

The answer to his question does he have enough hp for a big square baler the answer is no he needs minimum 150 hp MFWD tractor for a big square baler . If he was doing round bales he has enough hp if the fields are fairly level and no big hills .

 

[D7E]

The answer to his question does he have enough hp for a big square baler the answer is no he needs minimum 150 hp MFWD tractor for a big square baler . If he was doing round bales he has enough hp if the fields are fairly level and no big hills .

When i worked for custom balers back in the 90's we ran 3 foot balers on smaller tractors like NH 8240's and MF 6180's and one driver even had a NH D1000 on a Ford 7610 .
I bought a baler this week and previous owner was using it on a 115hp IH (2wd), I have it on 154hp though (2wd) !

 

[Willl]

Can't even call bale's of hay stupid anymore,,,,,what's next ?

 

[AKfish]

Can't even call bale's of hay stupid anymore,,,,,what's next ?

If you can't grin while you're sayin' it - nope...

AKfish

 

[Duffster]

The answer to his question does he have enough hp for a big square baler the answer is no he needs minimum 150 hp MFWD tractor for a big square baler . If he was doing round bales he has enough hp if the fields are fairly level and no big hills .

150 is good but ~100 is the min.

He certainly doesn't need MFWD to bale hay.

 

[AKfish]

I guess I didn't "pick up" on the big Square bale question... Not nearly as many outfits that use the big squares - just figured he meant rounds!

The big square balers cost 2.5X more than a big round balers and you need a 1.5X larger tractor. That means you gotta have 5X more money!!!

AKfish

 

[D7E]

I guess I didn't "pick up" on the big Square bale question... Not nearly as many outfits that use the big squares - just figured he meant rounds!

The big square balers cost 2.5X more than a big round balers and you need a 1.5X larger tractor. That means you gotta have 5X more money!!!

AKfish

I think we're moving to all square though as they are 2x easier to sell !

 

[Duffster]

I guess I didn't "pick up" on the big Square bale question... Not nearly as many outfits that use the big squares - just figured he meant rounds!

The big square balers cost 2.5X more than a big round balers and you need a 1.5X larger tractor. That means you gotta have 5X more money!!!

AKfish

Better recalculate your math. :laughing:

After making and using big squares I hate to even think about using rounds. To me round bales are almost as primitive as small squares.

 

[MMagis]

Can someone exlpain the benefit of large squares? The only time I see them around here is the occasional truckload on the interstate, so I'm not familiar. One of the benefits of big rounds is being able to store them outside. Other than stackability for people with the barn space, I can't think of any benefit of the large squares. They sure look nice, but that only goes so far.

 

[banjodunn]

G'day in the long run it's up to personal preference be it small or large, square or round it is what suits your operation. Over here we farm just on 1000 acres and we make and use all three, small squares are used to feed stock in holding pens and yards, rounds are stored in outlaying paddocks where there is no shedding and we can use our trailing self loading feeder, large squares are used from the house block where the fel is usually located. As far as hp goes we ran a NH 2000 baler behind an Inter 1466 and a NH BR 740 behind an Inter 786/ Belarus 920 have also run the NH super 69 behind the ford 3000 ( alright on the flat going ) MFWD is not a neccessity but would be nice for the extra braking in some hills, the smallest hp req i have seen is about 115 for a NH 12xx series but this is usually the bare min and running on flat ground.

 

[MMagis]

I'm sure others remember the small rounds? Now THOSE were stupid.

 

[pitt_md]

Can someone exlpain the benefit of large squares? The only time I see them around here is the occasional truckload on the interstate, so I'm not familiar. One of the benefits of big rounds is being able to store them outside. Other than stackability for people with the barn space, I can't think of any benefit of the large squares. They sure look nice, but that only goes so far.

Think labor saving over small bales, being able to stack them in a barn to save from rot and mold, shipping them.

Trust me, this is a lot better than tossing small squares any day!