Question for welders

[Winchester]

Just would like to give everyone a little insight from what I've experienced.

At our welding/machine shop we now have 5 welders in total and have probably been through a dozen or so. From what we've experienced we choose the Miller over Hobart or Lincoln every time. We've had both the Hobart and Lincoln mid-sized machines but never have they performed as good as the Millers. One of the bigest factors for us is that the Hobart & Lincoln welders we had tested all had a "Friction Drive" secondary feed wheel on the wire feed. With our Millers (even the smallest one) the secondary feed wheel is geared to the primary feed wheel which results in a much smoother wire feed. Unless you go to the more industrial Hobart or Lincoln machines then you will likely get the friction drive.

Also I would never limit myself to a flux core only machine. You never will get the most desireable results from flux, plus having to slag your welds.

If you do choose gas be sure to test several different blends of mig gas. Lower concentrations of CO2 will require a higher heat (which some small machines are not capable of) to achieve adequate penitration.

For most people the supplied feed guns are adequate but if you want superior results and a much more comfortable hand position consider upgrading to an after market gun. All of our machines have Bernard guns.

If you plan on ever using your Mig for aluminum with an aluminum gun, you will need much more heat out of a machine. Aluminum penitration is easily obtained but if you want a professional looking weld that isn't too peaky you will need more heat than is required for mild steel. Also do all aluminum prep work with stainless steel wire brushes only.

Just my 2 cents

 

[Stortz]

I ownd and opiratid one of the biggest welding shops in Connecticut for 29 years till the busines went down the drane caus of all the manufacturers going off shor. Yew reely need a stik machine and a wire machine to cover all the bases. I can weld with 1/4" rods or I can weld with 023 wire, but I cant weld evrything with eithur won.
Now i figurd out how to git evun with them Chinamen, I sell Chineze welders for US dollars. I buy them frum a guy on the west coste an sellem for more.

 

[reedfish1954]

Do yourself a great big favor and get a 220volt Mig welder. I have the Hobart HH180 and for 150.00 more than the HH140 you can do many more things up to and including 1/4 thick plate. For heavier stuff I have a Hobart StickMate 235AC, along with a SET OF OXY-ACTYLENE TORCHES WHICH THEN YOU CAN DO ANYTHING YOU NEED TO DO WITH ALL 3.

ANOTHER THING I HIGHLY RECOMMEND IS AN AUTOMATIC DARKENING WELDING HELMET. IF YOU HAVEN'T TRIED IT ....DO IT! WELDING TAKES ON A WHOLE NEW MEANING WITH AUTO DARKENING MASK.

 

[cmhyland]

I can weld 1/4 inch and thicker steel plate with my 135 amp Lincoln mig.

It is a 110 / 20 amp unit and I can't turn the heat up all the way doing 1/4
plate steel because it will burn through....

That is flux core wire... reversed polarity...

 

[drmiller100]

i had a 110 wirefeed. worked ok, but it always seemed to have feed problems when i was in a jam. In theory you can weld 1/4 inch with the 110 welder, but it is slow, and I always had fear of getting enough penetration. I'm not good enough to use flux core.
came across a raging deal on a big miller mig welder. Long story, but a guy needed money, and I got him to throw it in with a skidsteer I wanted.
The big welder is a LOT better then the little guy. For sure I can do ANYTHING I want with the big welder.
If you have the money, get a big Mig. If not, get a little mig, and keep a stick welder.
A local trailer manufacturer to this day uses a propane torch to heat the metal, then a stick welder to weld the spud for the hitch. More heat, better penetration.

 

[CT_Tree_Guy]

Based on what you've said, I think you have a couple of ways to go. A 220 MIG can do everything you said you wanted to do, but you'd have to switch from thinner to thicker wire (and switch liners) every time you went from welding really thin stuff to thick stuff. (I usually run .035 in my Millermatic 250 220-volt MIG, which is nice because you can use that same liner for .045 if you really want to turn up the juice. A lot of guys use .030 and thinner in their 220's, but then you can't weld as thick material as you can with .035/.045).

Maybe your best bet would be to get a nice used Lincoln SP-100, 125 (I think they made a 125 anyway) or a 135. Use that for the thinner stuff, and use the tombstone for the thicker stuff for now.

Down the road you can always add a 220 MIG to your collection for the ultimate in welding pleasure. I got a great used Millermatic 250 for $500. My buddy bought one at the same time from the same company and turned around and sold it for $1200. There are bargains out there, and 220 MIGs are nice, no doubt about it. Then you could sell your tombstone(s) if you wanted to and say goodbye to Mr. Slaghammer.

I have a sweet little SP-100 that I got used also for about $500 (with bottle and regulator) in like-new condition. It has been flawless, and with the .023 wire you can get fine results up to 1/4". As was said, preheat the workpiece with O-A or even propane or MAPP if you really need maximum penetration.

It's funny how I prefer different brands for different sizes of welders. For some reason, I like Lincoln for the 110 migs and Miller for the 220's. Never had any feed problems with either one, just make sure the feed rollers are in good shape, sized properly for the wire you're using, and that you have them tensioned properly.

Lastly, here's a tip on saving money on refills of the smaller bottles that you typically use with 110 migs. Ask your local welding supply shop make you up an adapter with fittings that will let you fill the small bottle from a big bottle (assuming you have one). The small bottles cost almost as much to fill as the big ones if you get them refilled the normal way. This saves a lot of money, especially after about the third time you forget to shut the gas off. If they won't do it for you, find someone who's not so greedy, and who understands how things work in the real world. It's quite safe, ignore anyone who tells you otherwise. Tighten the adapter on both bottles, crack the valve a little on the big bottle with the valve on the little bottle still closed, then crack the fitting on the little bottle a little to purge the air, then tighten the fitting, then open the valve on the little bottle, open the valve on the big bottle all the way, then close both valves when the pressure has equalized. Remove the adapter and you're done. After one or two times you'll be a pro.

Happy welding, John

 

[Renze]

I use a Tico 180 amp welder, on 380V power. (in Holland, the light bulb burns at 220 Volt and 380 is for power) and have a 250 amp stick welder for spare.

I use the mig for most jobs, though have to grind away the paint and thickest rust. In my experience, even when there just is a carbon skin on the metal (hot rolled profiles) 180 amp is just about enough to weld 10mm steel (3/8 inch)

You can reduce wire feed and put more amps in, but what you'll get is just a glue weld, the wire gets molten before it penetrates the base material of the workpiece, and you just glue the weld to the workpiece without proper penetration.

I also use the stick welder for areas i cannot clean with a flex grinder, or to stick weld a deep penetrating base weld with rods and then stack a few lines of MIG over it to get to the strength needed. With the stick welder you can turn up the heat without having the risk of "glue welds", this also sort of works as preheating before the MIG welder.

I do most 10 mm or 3/8" workpieces, but i would rather have had a 250 amp mig welder for this.

At the steel construction company i worked, we had 450 amp welders welding 15 mm steel in one weld, with good penetration and smooth and equal surface.

I think you wont regret buying a few extra amps if you weld thick material now and then.

Cost wise, i think the cost per weld is nearly the same, buying rods or buying wire and gas every time.

MIG welding is superior when welding thin stuff like cars, because you dont burn holes in it so easily. When we only had the stick welder we needed lots of plaster when repairing old cars... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[CT_Tree_Guy]

<font color="blue"> MIG welding is superior when welding thin stuff like cars, because you dont burn holes in it so easily. When we only had the stick welder we needed lots of plaster when repairing old cars... </font>

Plaster, I like that - we call it cheese. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

While MIG is way better than stick for working on sheet metal, the ultimate is TIG. I haven't done much TIG yet, but one of my best friends restores auto bodies for a living, old Porsche 356's mostly. Shrinkers, stretchers, english wheel, and all that. He uses TIG exclusively, and you can't beat it for controlling heat and being able to add filler sparingly as you weld the really thin stuff. Much more precise than having to work with power settings and wire feed rates with MIG.

But again, you're right, MIG beats stick for this every time.

 

[toy]

Does the metal shrinker stretcher and the English wheel work very well ? Is the shrinker stretcher a manual one? Do you know anything about air nibblers and air flanging tools{or manual ones for that matter}? I know that is a box full of questions but you mentioned a couple of tools that I am interested in. Any information would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[PILOON]

Re shrinker-streatcher;

I was in aviation and had the chance to use these tools enough to get decent results.
We had a small combined shrink-streatch tool (jaws were changed for each operation) that cost a mere $69.00 (maybe 10 yrs ago).
One job called for brass 'port hole' trim on a flying boat.
The door was about 2' x 3' on the curved fusulage and the 4 corners had about 10" radius making these real compounded curves.
I was able to make up curved 2" X 2" trim or flanges for the door frame using .050 brass sheet stock cut to 4" wide and then bent 90 deg on a brake. From there with the shrinker-stretcher I fabricated the door frame. (only perhaps a couple hrs prior practice and no scrapped parts) Naturally sanding, buffing and polishing followed.
Check aircraft tool supply houses for this tool.
Also sign makers use them.
This unit was quite capable of adding a 90 deg 3/4" flange on a curved cutout such as flanges on a auto fender.
Worked best in aluminum or brass stock, but did failey well on steel.
I found the shrinker to be easier to use than the streatcher as streatcher would occasionaly tear the metal when you exceeded the streatch limit

AS to the english wheel, we made one using a HD 'C' frame and 2 steel casters.
Basically the wheel is but a very HD 'C' clamp that squeezes the metal between 2 steel rolers. One being curved a bit more than the other. The clamp is a very fine thread so that the pressure feed is very gradual.
The operator supplies all the power by simply pulling and pushing the metal sheet back and forth while squished between the wheels.
A very tedius time consuming operation as well as frustrating.
That is a real art! Mind you very satisfing when you succeed.
Excellent results when using soft aluminum.
We were able to make teardrop bubblelike shapes on cowlings and such.

Nibblers I have tried, but now I'd use an air powered body saw or even a good jig saw with fine blades in thinner stock.
Couple weeks ago I even cut out 3/16 steel with a jigsaw for lack of other tool. Was slowish but very nice results with minimal dressing.
I'd say for volume production, then nibblers are a must. but costly for quality.
Also they are 'guage specific'. Electric seems the way to go vs air due to price.

Just my 2 cents, for what it is worth.
Good luck