Question on Garden startup

[Doc_Bob]

I run a a volunteered composting operation at the landfill I run. We use oak and pine sawdust from the cabinet shop on our roads to run trucks on the clay to the working face. Composting wood waste that is fresh takes away too much nitrogen till its composted a certain point and makes nitrogen.

I add urea pellets to my wood chips. About 50% nitrogen. I spread the chips and urea over my clay soil (3 inches thick of chips), run a 3 bottom plow, then till it. 4 1/2 years later (wood chips break down very slowly) the soil is looking great. Then, the farmer who leases my land tills it in the fall, then plants soybeans or corn the next year.In another 3 years, I can plant something other than soybeans and corn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Right now the soil is like a sponge.

Bob

 

[Doc_Bob]

I am pretty sure you can never have enough compost.

yes, you can never have too much!
Bob

 

[ray66v]

I use the horse manure when fully digested. The stuff that my neighbor gives me is like topsoil. Rich, fertile and awesome.

For smell, I suggest chicken manure! Especially with chicken parts like feathers, wings, egg shells, etc. as it really grosses out the wife.
Bob

Yes, if it is handled properly its reasonably safe.

How do you find out? When it your garden is full of weeds, you know it was not ready. Been there done that.

That is not worth it to me, even if you paid me to use it. I'll just buy the fertilizer, and compost. I don't need the hassle.

I start with weed free subsoil. Then, amend it with commercial compost, wood chips, and a little sand. I end up with beautiful weed free, soil. and I like to keep it that way.

 

[john_bud]

If you are not going to start planting for a year, I would spend the spring, summer and fall getting the soil ready. Dump loads of organic material. Horse, cow, chicken, mulch. Rototill and or bottom plow. Plus, your clay is going to hold lots of water. So, get a dump truck of sand and add that level across and rototill it in good.

To get rid of the weed issue before it starts, get a roll or two of rubber roofing. Put that over the garden plot and brickdown the edges. It will get warm and allow the seeds to germinate, then die. Every 2-4 weeks, pull that off and rototill. I would take the opportunity to add more orgainics and sand. In the spring of 2010, do a soil test and adjust as needed. You will have a productive well drained, weed free garden.

 

[jimmer2880]

Wow... TONS of great info. Thank you all for sharing. I have soo much reading to do now

 

[Doc_Bob]

To get rid of the weed issue before it starts, get a roll or two of rubber roofing. .

I just use black plastic. Kills weeds dead!
I have sections that I prepare and then just sit for 2 years.
I "peel" and plant. I always have enough garden ready for any needs.
Bob

 

[Knotbored]

I have horse, cow, lama and goat manure in my garden, both "fresh" and composted. I haven't seen much difference in affect on the vegetables, but the composted is much easier and cleaner to work with.
I also compost all the kitchen scraps (except meat.) To work properly I should (but don't) turn the pile to let fresh air to the center. Compost also needs some dry stems or sawdust for the carbon or it smells (mildly) like a sewer. If the horse manure is from stalls then the straw is a perfect addition. A well worked compost heap has no bad smells, no flies and condenses the volume by about 5 to one.

 

[Stimw]

Don't forget google is your friend also. I wanted to plant some potatoes and see how they do so I googled it. I now have them coming up and they look great. If I don't get a freeze or heavy frost I will have a good crop. For an example I found out that you plant the potato section 3" deep with an eye pointing up in hills.
I also bought an old bottom plow, I googled and found instructions on plowing! Do you know what "Suck " means? - with a plow it is the ajustment of it so it runs in the soil. Too much suck and it will porpose or drag, not enough and it will rise out of the soil.
How did we do anything before google????

 

[john_bud]

How did we do anything before google????

Read a book or two on "practical farming" from the 1900's to 1940's. You will quickly get real real humble. Them boys did amazing stuff with about nothing other than a pocket knife and determination!

 

[DennisArrow]

For me, and we have been doing this for several years now, goat poop is the very best there is. We quit cleaning out the dirt floor sheds in December typically, sometimes November. Hay, urine, and poop build up by late Feb. to 8 inches to a foot deep. Right now the stuff is hot and provides warmth for the animals to lay on at night.

In early March we start cleaning out the sheds and putting it on the garden, trees, flower beds, and shrubs. IT GROWS like you cant believe. As an example, we have a row of Leland Cypress along the road with part of the garden draining on several of them. These that get that drainage are 2 or 3 times in size of those that are not exposed.

Anyway, just a thought, but goat stuff is really good..........Dennis

 

[jimmer2880]

The manure I'll be getting is from the stalls. However, he doesn't use straw for bedding. Rather, he uses saw dust for bedding. I assume that this will not be quite as nice as straw, and will take longer to break down. On the other hand, though, because I have so much clay, will the saw dust will help keep the clay from firming up too bad?

 

[charlz]

The manure I'll be getting is from the stalls. However, he doesn't use straw for bedding. Rather, he uses saw dust for bedding. I assume that this will not be quite as nice as straw, and will take longer to break down. On the other hand, though, because I have so much clay, will the saw dust will help keep the clay from firming up too bad?

In the long run I think wood chips provide the best soil. In the short run they take some of the nitrogen out of your soil as they further decompose. Doing green manure crops can help. If you want the very best crops you pretty much have to fertilize anyway so....

Any organic matter should help with the clay. Some people advise sand, some people say clay+sand=concrete this may depend on the type of clay you have. If it is really bad I would consider going the raised bed avenue.

The stables I get my manure from use sand part of the year (winter?) due to the sawdust just gets saturated whereas the sand provides better draining.

 

[KentT]

Any organic matter should help with the clay. Some people advise sand, some people say clay+sand=concrete this may depend on the type of clay you have. If it is really bad I would consider going the raised bed avenue.

The "textbook ideal" soil is 1/3 clay to retain moisture, 1/3 sand to provide drainage, and 1/3 composted organic material to provide the nutrients...

You're correct that sand + clay = concrete, but only if the organic material part is missing...

 

[Doc_Bob]

Rather, he uses saw dust for bedding. I assume that this will not be quite as nice as straw, and will take longer to break down.

Use extra nitrogen to help the sawdust breakdown.
Bob

 

[HappyCPE]

For clay soil there's nothing like huge amounts of organics. I started 4 years ago and have some pretty good beds in my thick clay soil.

One thing not mentioned is gypsum. You might want to experiment with some, in small quantities, to change the quality of the soil. I used a few bags in my beds and the lumpiness is gone.

The only downside is that a part of one bed had a salt contamination in one of the bags. The halite, which can sometimes occur with mined gypsum, made the veggies grown there salty. That bed was planted to flowers shortly after!

Next spring I'm trying Greensand in a few beds.

 

[Stimw]

Gypsum is alkaline and will mess up your ph.

 

[Chuck52]

For that small a garden, you might want to read up on "lazagna" gardening. Basically, you don't bother taking up the turf or anything. Just put down newspaper or cardboard to kill the turf, then layer with compost, old manure, leaves, whatever, topped with newspaper and maybe some compost to hold the paper in place. Then you plant through the newspaper. If you're waiting a year, I'd do something like that and cover it with plastic to let it sheet compost for a year and then plant in it. You end up with a raised bed to which you can add new layers as it settles and composts. Even some fairly fresh manure is OK if it isn't a major component of a layer.

Chuck