Buying Advice Questions about potential purchase, not sure where to start

   / Questions about potential purchase, not sure where to start #131  
I think getting a tractor could be win/win for you. You will get a lot of work done and your property will get improved. Your Dad will be in heaven, and you can fund your implement purchases by charging him a recreation fee for operating your tractor. ;)
Dad's second childhood, in his imagination ...

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And I gotta admit, I love playing 'Gentleman Farmer' on my two tractors, as well as playing with my welders, as I get even older. Life is good.
 
   / Questions about potential purchase, not sure where to start #132  
I started out like you as a city slicker armature kind of like you. My opinion, is therefore willingly subject to correction by experts. For reference, I live on 5 acres with about 3.5 acres of open, level ground.

For your property I would consider a good, clean and well maintained used tractor. 4 X 4, from a major brand vs a Chinese tractor, water in the tires for weight, front end loader, and implements such as a 4' or 5' bush hog, PTO driven chipper if need that can handle up to 4" limbs, and a 4 or 5' box scraper. With some shopping, $20,000.00 today should leave you some pocket change left over.

I live on the Central Coast of California where vineyards abound. It's probably unusual elsewhere, but here, vineyards lease new 4 X 4 tractors in the 25 hp range for towing trailers thru the vineyards. They are turned in each year to the dealers. The dealers in turn only sell these and rarely new ones in this size, because these are barely broken in. The dealers sell them at 50+ total hours with new frontend loaders. If they don't have 50 hours, they run them until they do.

In 2003, I purchased a 1998 JD 770 (790's replaced them the next year) from a private party that had purchased it with 52 hours. In 2003 it had 252 hours, a loader and a very old disc harrow. It has 25 HP (23 PTO HP) from a 3 cylinder Yanmar engine. The seller kept it inside as do I, and it still looks and runs like new. The seller told me I was the 11th call that day, and I purchased it at 10:00 pm on the spot. Later, over the years, I purchased a new JD 4' bush hog from JD, a used 4' box scraper from a used parts dealer and a 10 year old Bear Cat wood chipper that had been only used once a year (with the original cutter blades in the original position). plus a 7' rake, and a new rear fork on which I put a home made 25 gallon 12' wide sprayer.

Other than routine service, I've put in 2 batteries (A Walmart Everstart lasted 13 years), replaced the two front tires and performed routine oil and filter changes and greasing; that's it. This tractor is not Hydrostatic, but with 8 forward and 2 reverse gears, one would think it has twice the HP it needs. It will run all day with a bush hog on 5 or 6 gallons of diesel. I burn dyed diesel so there is no road tax on it.

If I were you, I would not hesitate to find a good used low hours tractor, and look for used implements in good condition because many of them are overbuilt to last in commercial use. The major manufacturers (not just JD, New Holland or Kubota) have a tractor for every size and job, and they are pretty much bullet proof and economical to run and maintain. Also, older tractors may not need the blue diesel additive that many new one's require.

My results are in part because the tractor stays inside, the climate is mild, I always buy the largest battery I can find (It requires 550 CCA to start, but I buy one with 800 - 1,000 CCA). Since I'm old and have driven probably 600,000 miles in stick shift cars (including a 47,000 lb. school bus with a non synchro crash box transmission, the manual gears were not a concern. If I need to slip the clutch, which I don't do, I need a lower gear. I never try to shift on the fly on the tractor.

FYI: Tractor engine hours are not like a car. They are based on running at rated HP, not clock hours. Mine runs at 2,600 rated, about 2,750 max, so to get one clock hour at idle (about 750 rpm) it would have to run about 3.5 hours.

Before I bought mine, I looked at a lot of tractors that were in bad shape. They were pretty well run out and rusted, with rotted seats and tires. It may take time, but a good used one is out there. Your local Washington State dealers may also work with he many Vineyards in your area as they do here. You don't have to buy everything at once if not in your immediate budget.

If this sounds condescending, I do apologize.

Your friendly armature that was in the same boat you are now.
 
   / Questions about potential purchase, not sure where to start #133  
FYI: Tractor engine hours are not like a car. They are based on running at rated HP, not clock hours. Mine runs at 2,600 rated, about 2,750 max, so to get one clock hour at idle (about 750 rpm) it would have to run about 3.5 hours.
Good post, and perspective, Joe. But on this one point, I don't think it's universal. My older tractors (Deere 750, Deere 855) definitely operated as you describe here, with the hours racking up proportional to engine RPM. Operate at 1/2 PTO speed, and it might only rack up 0.5 hours for each hour of operation.

But my new all-electronic tractor seems to count the hours at actual run hours, independent of operating RPM. I think this is actually less useful, with regard to engine wear and fluid change intervals, but I guess it does represent actual hours on the chassis.

I don't know if there's still any proportionality at all built into the hour meter, or if it's just straight time. But I do know I'm racking up hours at more than twice the rate on the new machine, despite doing the same chores and seat time.
 
   / Questions about potential purchase, not sure where to start
  • Thread Starter
#134  
If this sounds condescending, I do apologize.

Your friendly armature that was in the same boat you are now.
Not condescending at all, I appreciate you sharing your experience and insight.

Overall, and graciously, I'm getting a spectrum of feedback and realize my decision to buy new versus old relies on several factors: availability of secondhand equipment (and a willingness to patiently wait for it), budget, time and ability to dedicate to maintenance, and not getting blinded by the flash of convenience or a certain brand. HP is important, implements are important, and the entire point of a tractor, to me, is looking at a project and knowing it won't take me days or weeks to complete it.

Secondly, the idea of paying someone else to transform my property from previous posts is a great suggestion. I have already paid handsomely for several overwhelming projects - namely the chipping down of 3 fully grown fallen Douglas firs that were hidden beneath a mountain of blackberry this year (I believe they used a forestry head) and occasional brush hogging (which really wasn't expensive, maybe $500, but I wish I had more control over it). I just consider myself a crafty person, and didn't move here with the intention of letting others do everything for me. I hope that makes sense - it's not a waste of time to take care of where I live, so ultimately, I want to get a tractor and if that requires me to wait a little bit, I'm still out there working after my day job.
 
   / Questions about potential purchase, not sure where to start #135  
HP is important, implements are important, and the entire point of a tractor, to me, is looking at a project and knowing it won't take me days or weeks to complete it.
Of the chores I remember you listing so far, I'd say HP is only important if you plan to till. For everything else I recall you listing, HP is really not a factor, any engine combination for a given chassis (assuming Deere/Kubota) will likely be sufficient. Since I use my machine 99% as a front-end loader, and don't do any tilling or other ground-engaging implements, I actually bought the lowest HP (33 hp) available in my chassis. It kept me out of DEF fluid and a higher cost bracket.

...didn't move here with the intention of letting others do everything for me.
I remember when I bought my first house, I was the hands-on type, but hadn't yet built up my own tool collection to have everything I needed. I lucked into a neighbor who was a general contractor, and we became fast friends. He soon told me, "borrow any tool you need twice, but by the third time you should consider buying your own."

I've carried that philosophy through life, now 30 years later. I'll rent, borrow, or pay someone to do any job that I only need done once... or twice. But if it's something I can anticipate needing three times or more, I just buy my own to start.

Looking at your present situation, I'd consider which tools you might need over the years, and buy those now. And once that arsenal is determined, then hire someone to do the few jobs not easily done with the tools you've chosen. Even when I hire someone to do a job, I'm often out there doing the complimentary part of the job along side them, as long as it's actually something helpful to the process, and I'm not just in their way.
 
   / Questions about potential purchase, not sure where to start #136  
As soon as you turn the key to on the hour meter is on
the go

willy
 
   / Questions about potential purchase, not sure where to start #137  
What Chinese brands are you referring to?
The stuff in the Chinese Tractors Forum? Jinma in particular trashed the reputation in general for Chinese tractors. Back then one dealer was importing them and also at the same time importing clean used 20 year old Yanmars. He said the Jinmas needed far more work to get them set up properly than the Yanmars. A seat, battery, maybe tires etc was all the Yanmars needed to go out and just run, while the Jinmas were a continual warranty return headache. He dropped Jinma when he had a customer rollover death.

One guy had unexpected early failure of 4x4 front bearings on some other Chinese brand - Foton?? - and his wife's Jinma had similar problems. He was a retired machinist with a full shop (in a tent on the land where was building) so he made his own replacement parts. His posts as he kept his Chinese tractors functional - were discouraging.

The LW8 Backhoe has been described as heavy, hard to repair, and its hoses can't be duplicated by US hydraulic shops when needed. I considered buying one before I read all about them, and bought something else made in the US.

And - The Jinma sales rep they sent over for the US, posted somewhere on here that they were designed inexpensive for the weekender hobbyist market, not for farming or commercial use. In contrast to other makes in the US.

Hopefully they're better now. It's been years since I looked into them.
 
   / Questions about potential purchase, not sure where to start
  • Thread Starter
#138  
It would be helpful if you posted some pictures of your property.

Disclaimer: Tried my best on these - but I'll try to explain in captions. The property wraps around the house, so I focused on the larger areas and it's essentially more of what is captured below.
yyy.jpg

This is what it looked like when I moved here. Property extends to the tree line at the back. There is a fence overtaken by blackberry, not mad about it, but it has collapsed the fence and is encroaching in the summer.
oo.jpg

One more - and you may see a small black dot in these pictures. That's my little whippet, he's the one that needs the grass short as he's known to run through, get ticks or other mischief.
yy.jpg

This is after a light dusting, and you might be able to see details of the property more?
u.jpg

This and the following are from last night. Tried to capture the slope on this one. On the upper right corner, you can see a steeper incline where the earth has been piled up into a mound. This is one of the places that I can't get to on my mower due to the rockiness and slopes.
p.jpg

Beyond the walnut trees is where the former garbage burn pit is. I've already tilled up a couple piles of sod that I want to fill it with.
ro.jpg

This is another retaining ledge held up by rocks. Naturally, I can't mow over this without destroying the blades of my mower - I want to turn this into a lavender field, as my vegetable / dye garden is adjacent to the area and I am trying to think of uses for it.
 
   / Questions about potential purchase, not sure where to start #139  
Cursory reviewing the a popular marketplace, I sent a message about this one.

Based on another post by her, appears to be an estate sale, which describes the ideal situation you all defined previously.

That Kubota B7510 is a very nice machine and size for your place, and in near new condition and was well taken care of which is key to buying used.

It may be a bit verpriced, but its got what you need now - a FEL, and brush hog and a rear blade - good for snow and leveling dirt (with blade turned around). A comparable new one would be $20K plus.

The only "cons" are, it's got a pin on bucket (not a quick attach) but you can get around that with bolt on debris forks. Overall a very nice unit and a size that would work well on your property
 

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