questions for you hydraulic experts please!!!

[HCJtractor]

I am building a cultipacker and want it to be transportable. I have the wheel assemblies that were taken off an old Allis Chalmers planter that i converted to a three point hitch style, so I plant to make this packer in the same manner that the planter was designed, using left over parts for the wheels and frames. I would love to be able to drive the hydraulics without using my tractor hydraulics. My question is could this system be driven by a manual pump or a 12 V pump as it is designed? I am showing you the diagram from the manual that show the system, of which I have all the parts. If not, I need to modify it someway so that I can use a manual pump and a ram, or a ratchet jack. My main frame will be similar to the one in the diagram except with only two cross members, not three. And only two wheels (the third wheel in the diagram is for a fertilizer drive which is not part of the wheel assembly). Total weight will be around 1000 lbs, some of which will be supported by the tongue.

Note the old system uses a 3" x 8" double action cylinder and a 2" x 8" single action slave cylinder. Is there a way to use a pump other than the tractor remotes that would not be too expensive? I don't mind having to spend a minute or so pumping as this will not be something I have to lift a lot. Those of you who know hydraulics and want a "farmer engineered" challenge, please take a look and offer your thoughts.

Ignore the chain and middle wheel as that is not there. There are only two identical wheel assemblies. The one on the right is the master and the one on the left is the slave. Its really a pretty simple design, but I am making it complicated by not wanting to have to use my tractor. So my question is simply this: what other ways can this system as designed be powered??

 

[J_J]

A 12v power pac.

Surplus Center - 12 VDC 1.0 GPM 2000 PSI SPX DA POWER PACK

 

[HCJtractor]

A 12v power pac.

Surplus Center - 12 VDC 1.0 GPM 2000 PSI SPX DA POWER PACK

Thanks JJ. I was hoping to hear from you. I will check out that power pac. If I use that, what size hydraulic lines do I use? I was also wondering if I could use quick connects that would allow the pac to be removed during storage or if my tractor was available and I wanted to use my remotes. In other words, could I mount the power pack on my tongue and connect it with standard quick connect couplers? Also, would a deep cycle battery be sufficient to run this pack or should I wire it directly into my vehicles 12V system. Sorry for the questions, but this is all new to me.

Just for my own knowledge, is there any manual pump that could work in a satisfactory way? If not, why? Is it the lack of volume in reserve?

 

[J_J]

Yes. a manual pump would work, if there is sufficient volume. 1/4 in hose in the base end and a vent in the rod end.

Just figure out the volume in the cyl and the manual pump .

Yes, you can use QD's, but you will have to watch out for a deadhead situation.

I have a small 12v hyd power pack for an outboard motor lift that I used on one project.

 

[olde man]

the marine battery will work fine.sorry about all the hand pump info i thought that was the way you were wanting to roll.

 

[HCJtractor]

the marine battery will work fine.sorry about all the hand pump info i thought that was the way you were wanting to roll.

I am still debating which, 12v or manual. I looked at the pump from surplus center and also checked out a dump trailer at a local dealer to see how it works, so I agree that this is probably the easiest option. I only have two questions if I use this. First, the diagram shows only one hydraulic line going back to the tractor whereas normally there is two. So if I use a 12v power pack, and use the same plumbing the diagram shows, is there going to be only one hydraulic line going to the pump? What happens to the second port?
Second, the slave cylinder, a DA 2 x8"' has only one line going to it. Is the second port capped or what?

If I go manual, and use the same plumbing as shown with a 3 x 8" and a 2x 8" slave cylinders, how do I figure the volume pump needed? I was looking at the Enerpacs, and could anyone recommend a specific pump?

Thanks for sharing your knowledge!

 

[J_J]

If the cyl are SA, you vent the rod end air port.

If that is a DA cyl, and you use it as an SA cyl, you vent the rod end port.

If there is only one line from the pump to the cyl, that means that the component to release the fluid in in the pump assembly.

The pump raises the cyl, and a solenoid assembly releases the fluid back to tank.

2 x 8 = .11 gal
3 x 8 = .24 gal
Total = .35 gal

Volume to fill both cyl is .35 gal, or 44.8 oz

Just select a pump that has a little more than 44.8 oz's

 

[HCJtractor]

If the cyl are SA, you vent the rod end air port.

If that is a DA cyl, and you use it as an SA cyl, you vent the rod end port.

If there is only one line from the pump to the cyl, that means that the component to release the fluid in in the pump assembly.

The pump raises the cyl, and a solenoid assembly releases the fluid back to tank.

2 x 8 = .11 gal
3 x 8 = .24 gal
Total = 35 gal

Volume to fill both cyl is .35 gal, or 44.8 oz

Just select a pump that has a little more than 44.8 oz's

Sorry, but I am still confused. I understand completely that if I use one double action cylinder, I plumb it just like a dump trailer and use a double action pump. But if I want to use it as it was designed 40 years ago and since I have all the parts to do so without modification, what pump do I use? A double action like you suggested earlier or a single action? Note that the master 3" cylinder is a double, but the port on the rod end is connected to the base end port of a single action 2" slave cylinder. If I use a double action pump, where do the two hydraulic lines go? Obviously one to the base of the 3" cylinder, but where's the other go? It seems I need a single action pump, not a double? Is that right? I assume the solenoid assembly is part of any 12 V pump I buy.


I looked at the manual pumps with that large capacity. They are pretty costly, so I am leaning to a 12 V system, if I can figure out the hydraulics. I could modify it and link the two wheels together by welding, and use one double action cylinder like a dump trailer, but I would rather use it without major modification like it was designed.

 

[olde man]

going from your pictures you posted and assuming you are using the same cylinders from the original set up (this is important) you will only be moving the .25 (56.52 in.3). the only place you will use a breather is at the rod end of the slave cylinder. so go pump to ext. port of master cyl, hook ret. port of master cyl. to extend port of slave cyl. the retract side of master cylinder and the plumbing between the two cylinders must be full of oil. now about a pump. the enerpac p-25 is a high flow pump with 2500 psi and plenty of tank capacity. you can bolt it to your machine via the 4-bolt base mount. or you can hook up a 12v dc s/a pump to your inlet line and go that way. the easiest way to prime your master cyl re would be to, before pinning it in place,ext. the rod of master in some fashion (blow gun with air) or pump it out, then prime your line and hook it to the master ret port and pump it closed then hook it to the ext port of your slave cyl. you already have the blue print on the system. i just gave you some put it together advice and recommended a pump that will handle the job.

 

[olde man]

you have a compound single acting circuit that only requires you to hook up a pump and a res assembly single acting be it hand or 12v you'll pay close to the same for either 12v would be more convenient.remember your only moving a quart of oil